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Unread 01-06-2018, 02:43 PM
Mgineer Mgineer is offline
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The Return of the Ramp Bots

Now that the Levitation powerup makes one alliance not climbing viable for match points and ranking points (with FACING THE BOSS), a robot needs to be only 12 in off of the ground to be considered climbing, and that bar is so small, do any of you predict robots with ramps like in 2007? Is anyone planning on making your robot like this? I'm curious to see what current consensus is on the viability of bots with ramps on them that other bots can ascend using.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 02:50 PM
ATannahill ATannahill is offline
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

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Originally Posted by Mgineer View Post
Now that the Levitation powerup makes one alliance not climbing viable for match points and ranking points (with FACING THE BOSS), a robot needs to be only 12 in off of the ground to be considered climbing, and that bar is so small, do any of you predict robots with ramps like in 2007? Is anyone planning on making your robot like this? I'm curious to see what current consensus is on the viability of bots with ramps on them that other bots can ascend using.
It doesn't even need to be 12 inches off the ground, only the bumpers need to be 12 inches off the ground, theoretically possible if the robot is 10 inches off the ground.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 02:53 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

I would agree, the fairly fixed robot size limits help enable this. I think a double ramp bot + capability to deliver cubes to the exchange is a very viable strategy.

The more I think about it, the more I think Power Up has, in subtle ways, more high-level drastically different viable design approaches and strategies than most FIRST games in recent memory. The relative freedom of approach to a lot of tasks reminds me of some older games.

One thing to note if you plan to pursue this: In 2007, ramp bots were very explicitly a part of the game, and teams built their drivetrains expecting to have to navigate unknown partner ramps. This year, teams probably won't be expecting it quite so much. Be public about your plans, and design your ramps to be as friendly as possible to the conventional "flat field" drivetrains most teams will likely be building.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 04:32 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

How are robots sitting on another robot that isn't in the air fully supported by the scale? A robot's bumpers need to be more than 12" off the ground, *and* it must be fully supported by the scale (or transitively).

I don't think a ramp-bot satisfies this requirement, and no one on the alliance would get the points (except for the levitate, if applicable).
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Unread 01-06-2018, 04:40 PM
ATannahill ATannahill is offline
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

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Originally Posted by pfreivald View Post
How are robots sitting on another robot that isn't in the air fully supported by the scale? A robot's bumpers need to be more than 12" off the ground, *and* it must be fully supported by the scale (or transitively).

I don't think a ramp-bot satisfies this requirement, and no one on the alliance would get the points (except for the levitate, if applicable).
The definition of scale in section 3.3 on page 17 includes the platforms.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 04:42 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

That was one of the things I was curious about when making this post. According to the manual (specifically 3.3) the platforms are a part of the scale. Although it's a bit of a technicality, the robot is supported by those platforms and is, therefore, supported by the scale. Not sure if FIRST would allow this though.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 04:50 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

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The definition of scale in section 3.3 on page 17 includes the platforms.
Hmm.

I doubt that will survive Q&A, but we'll see.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 04:54 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

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Hmm.

I doubt that will survive Q&A, but we'll see.
In my opinion, G05 suggests that this strategy was intentionally allowed.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 04:55 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

If somebody asks for clarification on this and gets an answer, please post the Q&A link here.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 04:58 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

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If somebody asks for clarification on this and gets an answer, please post the Q&A link here.
Will do.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 05:27 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

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Originally Posted by Basel A View Post
In my opinion, G05 suggests that this strategy was intentionally allowed.
Completely agree.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 05:47 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

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Completely agree.
Same.


However, I strongly disagree with Joe G. This is NOT a "Flat Field". There are 4x 2cm tall bumps dividing the central part of the field into quarters, and there's a pair of big ol' platforms. Any team designing for a flat field is going to be hurtin'...


I do think this should be a Q&A, to confirm this was intentionally left open.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 05:50 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

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Originally Posted by Joe G. View Post
I would agree, the fairly fixed robot size limits help enable this. I think a double ramp bot + capability to deliver cubes to the exchange is a very viable strategy.
The double ramps are interesting but extremely tricky given that the frame perimeter extension is only 16", while it was infinite in the Home Zone in 2007 when it was last commonly used.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 06:20 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

I really wish SCALE would have been defined in the glossary.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 06:48 PM
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Re: The Return of the Ramp Bots

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I really wish SCALE would have been defined in the glossary.
It's defined in section 3.3: "The SCALE features an arm, RUNGS, PLATES, OUTRIGGERS, PLATFORMS, and TOWER." Of special note is that the platforms are included in the list of components which comprise the scale.
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