OCCRA
Go to Post ...too much to do... ...too little time... - Joe Johnson [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-10-2018, 05:54 PM
ngreen ngreen is online now
Mentor
AKA: Nelson Green
FRC #1108 (Panther Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Paola, KS
Posts: 1,060
ngreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond repute
Summer research

In the spirit of this thread, I conducted some summer research with another mentor for the 2019 game. I presented the research finding to the team, which I'll summarize below: https://docs.google.com/presentation...it?usp=sharing

We (me and Nick) traveled to Green Bank, WV, home of the Green Bank Telescope (or Great Big Thing). There we attended an annual conference of amateur radio astronomers (SARA). It was my first introduction to the topic and I met many friendly people, including a couple other FIRST mentors. The GBT weighs 17 million pounds and rotates on train wheels which each support 1 million pounds each. It is the one of the largest moving objects on land with aircraft carriers being larger. The dish is 100 meters across (2 football fields). It is almost as tall as the Washington Monument.

Green Bank is in the Radio Free Zone, which basically means no cellular or radio stations, to minimize radio interference with the observing. Radio astronomy is similar to optical astronomy but looking at a different frequency or wavelength of electromagnetic radiation. The radio frequency is less than that of visible light. For professional astronomers, the larger dish or arrays are used to look for very faint signals from space. There are several shown dishes, like the Very Large Array in New Mexico and Arecibo in Puerto Rico. There are many uses for radio astronomy in cosmology, and it was important in discoveries of the cosmic microwave background which is evidence of the Big Bang, pulsars, quasars, and interstellar molecules. The basic telescope is achievable by amateurs to view some strong radio sources and things like hydrogen in the galaxy (which can be used to estimate velocities of the arms of the Milky Way).

Thinking about DEEP SPACE, there were a couple of apparent lessons during the trip. First, we need to consider what coordinate system we will be using during the year, as we think how we will position the robot in Deep Space. I reviewed the applicable coordinate systems, starting from robot-centric coordinates. Field-centric coordinates have been helpful in controlling robots position. I don't think a FIRST-centric (centered in Manchester, NH) system or even a Geocentric coordinate will be useful. We've learned the latter thanks to Copernicus and his Heliocentric model. During the conference, I was made aware of the task of trying to navigate through interstellar space, and the choice of a galactocentric coordinate seems to be worthy of Deep Space. However, I haven't yet ruled out a Universe-centric coordinate system, although I'm still researching where the center coordinate would be, hopefully in time for the 2029 game "Deep deep space". The last slide recognizes the talker (Rich Russell, a former submarine navigator) who shared his ideas navigating through space using known clouds of hydrogen to correct your path, using galactocentric coordinates.

My second lesson during the trip was about SETI. An astronomer working in SETI's Breakthrough Listen project with the GBT was a keynote speaker. In 2009, for lunacy, our t-shirt said "make the FIRST impression" and so I thought this should be updated for Deep Space. As robotics teams, it is important for us the make "FIRST Contact", whether that be with new students, sponsors, mentors, other teams, our school leaders, local leaders, or celebrities. It is easy to think of the movies Contact or Star Trek: First Contact, and how we can incorporate all this into Deep Space. Of course, what does SETI stand for? For us, it is the "Search for Extra-Tireless Inventors", that is students that will build our team and robot. It is the job of current team members to participate in SETI and to find these ETIs. We know the search coordinates (insert picture of local high school), but we still don't know whether there is intelligent life (insert pictures from teen movies). But I'm optimistic, that FIRST will transform any student, even the freaks and geeks will be changed into blue banner winners. Either way, resistance is futile and all will be assimilated. But in FIRST we know resistance isn't futile, it is voltage divided by current!

Last edited by ngreen : 07-11-2018 at 01:13 AM. Reason: lbs not tons
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-10-2018, 06:05 PM
pkrishna3082's Avatar
pkrishna3082 pkrishna3082 is online now
love/hate relationship with swerve
AKA: Parthiv Krishna
FRC #3082 (Chicken Bot Pie) and FTC #13471 Mentor (Minnetonka)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Minnetonka, MN, USA
Posts: 847
pkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Summer research

Yeah but do you do galaxy-relative positioning through non-linear state estimation?
__________________

“Screws fall out all the time. The world is an imperfect place.”
2010-2011: FLL 11083, 13873 (Minnetonka Silver) - Programmer
2016-: FRC 3082 (Chicken Bot Pie) - Engineering Captain, Driver, Programming Lead
2017-: FTC 13471 (Minnetonka) - Founding Mentor
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-10-2018, 06:13 PM
CarlosGJ CarlosGJ is offline
418 alumnus, 696 mentor
AKA: Carlos Gross Jones
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: La Canada Flintridge, CA
Posts: 97
CarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond reputeCarlosGJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Summer research

Sounds like REP-105 will need to be extended...
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-10-2018, 06:51 PM
ngreen ngreen is online now
Mentor
AKA: Nelson Green
FRC #1108 (Panther Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Paola, KS
Posts: 1,060
ngreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Summer research

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkrishna3082 View Post
Yeah but do you do galaxy-relative positioning through non-linear state estimation?
Do you think Gravity could help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosGJ View Post
Sounds like REP-105 will need to be extended...
Will have to look into transformations.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-10-2018, 06:57 PM
deslusionary's Avatar
deslusionary deslusionary is offline
easily impressed by fancy acronyms
AKA: Christopher Tinker
FRC #7093 (Veritas Valiants)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Rookie Year: 2018
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 125
deslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant futuredeslusionary has a brilliant future
Re: Summer research

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkrishna3082 View Post
Yeah but do you do galaxy-relative positioning through non-linear state estimation?

shhh... it is just odometry with kalman filters + some astrophysics...nothing to hard.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-10-2018, 07:04 PM
ngreen ngreen is online now
Mentor
AKA: Nelson Green
FRC #1108 (Panther Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Paola, KS
Posts: 1,060
ngreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Summer research

Quote:
Originally Posted by deslusionary View Post
...nothing to hard.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-11-2018, 12:40 AM
GeeTwo GeeTwo is offline
Somebody Else
AKA: Gus Michel II
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 5,969
GeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Summer research

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngreen View Post
The GBT weighs 17 million tons and rotates on train wheels which each support 1 million tons each. It is the largest moving object on land with aircraft carriers being larger. The dish is 100 meters across (2 football fields). It is almost as tall as the Washington Monument.
My understanding was that the largest man made moving object on land was the confinement arch for the Chernobyl #4 reactor (admittedly, this was built a bit over a tenth of a mile away from the reactor and rolled into place once and once only). It weighs about 25,000 tons which is about 60 million pounds, assuming those are metric tons.

Checking the wikipedia site for the GBT:
Quote:
The structure weighs 7,600 metric tons (8,400 short tons) and is 485-foot (148 m) tall.
That's more like 17 million POUNDS, not TONS. Way bigger than anything I've personally seen moving on land, but three of four orders of magnitude smaller than you were claiming. This is about 40% taller than the confinement arch but less than a third as massive.
__________________

If you can't find time to do it right, how are you going to find time to do it over?
If you don't pass it on, it never happened.
Robots are great, but inspiration is the reason we're here.
Friends don't let friends use master links.
[Quoting brennonbrimhall]: We design a new robot every year, but we can't forget that we also design a new team every year as folks come and go.

Last edited by GeeTwo : 07-11-2018 at 12:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-11-2018, 12:46 AM
Prateek M's Avatar
Prateek M Prateek M is online now
Kotlin Master Race
FRC #5190 (Green Hope Falcons)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: May 2018
Rookie Year: 2018
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Posts: 41
Prateek M is on a distinguished road
Re: Summer research

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkrishna3082 View Post
Yeah but do you do galaxy-relative positioning through non-linear state estimation?
Even better: Use a LIDAR to bounce off of galactic stars and planets for localization...

Last edited by GeeTwo : 07-11-2018 at 12:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-11-2018, 12:58 AM
GeeTwo GeeTwo is offline
Somebody Else
AKA: Gus Michel II
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 5,969
GeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Summer research

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prateek M View Post
Even better: Use a LIDAR to bounce off of galactic stars and planets for localization...
.. and that would take how many millennia?
__________________

If you can't find time to do it right, how are you going to find time to do it over?
If you don't pass it on, it never happened.
Robots are great, but inspiration is the reason we're here.
Friends don't let friends use master links.
[Quoting brennonbrimhall]: We design a new robot every year, but we can't forget that we also design a new team every year as folks come and go.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-11-2018, 01:12 AM
ngreen ngreen is online now
Mentor
AKA: Nelson Green
FRC #1108 (Panther Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Paola, KS
Posts: 1,060
ngreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond reputengreen has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Summer research

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
My understanding was that the largest man made moving object on land was the confinement arch for the Chernobyl #4 reactor (admittedly, this was built a bit over a tenth of a mile away from the reactor and rolled into place once and once only). It weighs about 25,000 tons which is about 60 million pounds, assuming those are metric tons.

Checking the wikipedia site for the GBT:
That's more like 17 million POUNDS, not TONS. Way bigger than anything I've personally seen moving on land, but three of four orders of magnitude smaller than you were claiming. This is about 40% taller than the confinement arch but less than a third as massive.
I definitely meant lbs, but slipped up there. As for the claims about largest, it is harder to fact check that, but you'd be correct about the containment sarcophagus, although to be fair that isn't moving again and I got to see GBT slew to new positions (from a distance) most days. But I'll say, one of the largest, for good measure.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi