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  #196   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-25-2018, 11:51 AM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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Originally Posted by pilum40 View Post
I would love to find a bright PURPLE powder and a local powder coater that would do the job for free in the Arlington, Texas area. Our shop is 1/4 of a regular classroom and cannot support it. I guess it's get the team to buy 2 cans of Krylon and spray the thing again....haha
Off topic but we don't powder coat anything (havent established a sponsor yet for it) and we just use Krylon. We've actually had people come up to us and ask if we powdercoated it due to how nice it turned out (at the beginning of the season, it had significant wear from +70 matches.)
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Unread 01-25-2018, 12:06 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

I'm doubtful that most people in this thread will change camps any time soon, so I'd like shift this conversation in a slightly different direction. These kits are out in the wild, and are likely here to stay at least for this season. No doubt some lower/mid-resource teams will buy them. How can Adam/WCP improve the experience for those teams? I have some suggestions below.

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Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
FIRST is too large and is recruiting too many unprepared teams to stick to its classical roots as a hardcore pure engineering challenge. Either the criteria for forming a team needs to change, or there needs to be even more encouragement of COTS solutions to help these teams. An analogy to the Vex Clawbot included in every kit of parts in a similar opt out fashion as the kop drive would be an incredible asset to the program.
Adam, do you and/or WCP plan to release any further documentation for these products? If the target audience is teams who could put together something like a VEX Clawbot or the AM14U drive, then I'd expect some kind of assembly guide to be available. A link to the RAMP elevator motor sizing video on the Greyt elevator page would probably go a long way as well. At the moment, it seems there are only STEP files.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 12:15 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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Originally Posted by josesantos View Post
I'm doubtful that most people in this thread will change camps any time soon, so I'd like shift this conversation in a slightly different direction. These kits are out in the wild, and are likely here to stay at least for this season. No doubt some lower/mid-resource teams will buy them. How can Adam/WCP improve the experience for those teams? I have some suggestions below.



Adam, do you and/or WCP plan to release any further documentation for these products? If the target audience is teams who could put together something like a VEX Clawbot or the AM14U drive, then I'd expect some kind of assembly guide to be available. A link to the RAMP elevator motor sizing video on the Greyt elevator page would probably go a long way as well. At the moment, it seems there are only STEP files.
Assembly tips are being worked on currently and should be released soon.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 08:28 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto View Post
This explains why FRC has gone downhill ever since the kitbot came out.

Thanks!

-Mike
But at the same time, it's well known that a drivetrain will NEVER win you a competition. With the addition of cots items that directly manipulate game pieces specific to that year, it messes up the system...
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Unread 01-25-2018, 08:41 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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Is this some weird dimension? Are you living on a different planet than the rest of us? Idk how you prepare your kids, but I know that many mentors prepare their students for the real world. They do real machining. Real designing. Let me guess, you are only preparing the students for the real world when its something you agree with?

-Ronnie
okay wow buddy lets all chill lol
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Unread 01-25-2018, 09:14 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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Originally Posted by isjustaprankbro View Post
But at the same time, it's well known that a drivetrain will NEVER win you a competition. With the addition of cots items that directly manipulate game pieces specific to that year, it messes up the system...
About that....
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Unread 01-25-2018, 09:20 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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A lot can change in a decade.
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Unread 01-25-2018, 10:25 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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Originally Posted by isjustaprankbro View Post
A lot can change in a decade.
Wow now I feel old lol,

I was in awe of 148's 2008 bot when I was a sophomore, an absolute unit
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Unread 01-26-2018, 12:31 AM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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Originally Posted by isjustaprankbro View Post
A lot can change in a decade.
But the three most important parts of the robot are still drivetrain, drivetrain, and drivetrain.

To be fair, Tumbleweed did have a non-drivetrain feature, used to knock balls off of the Overpass.

And, also to be fair, the GDC does try to make sure that at least some aspects of the offensive game can be done by a robot that has a drivetrain and not much else. This year, that would be the Auto line (5 points), the Exchange (some number of points between 0 and ?? depending on use case), and Parking (5 points). Last year was a little tougher, but gears (passive retrieval zone collector) and low-boiler fuel are examples. It's just that by the time you make eliminations, you've probably got something more than just a drivetrain...
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Unread 01-26-2018, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isjustaprankbro View Post
With the addition of cots items that directly manipulate game pieces specific to that year, it messes up the system...
I have been following this thread closely for a bit, and I have been perplexed by the fact that the REV lift kits seem not have not been mentioned. Is the above perhaps one of the differences, or did people just not feel the need to distinguish between the kits?

Either way, does that help draw a line?
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Unread 01-26-2018, 08:28 AM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

Many years ago, when our team initially started this website, we hoped it would be understood by those that choose to use it - respectful, shared thoughts and ideas would yield a better FIRST community. With that, it would require everyone to be open minded enough to allow opinions that differ from theirs to still be shared (as long as it didn’t break any rules). Most importantly, using gracious professionalism as the basis.
When we started the experience, COTS, AndyMark, VEX, nor many current suppliers existed. My, how times have changed.
My take on this is - if it helps teams fulfill a need and supports a better FIRST experience - so be it. Not every team has the same resource capabilities or limitations, so - far be it from me to judge what is best for others.
There are many ways to “do” this thing called FIRST.

Mike

Last edited by meaubry : 01-26-2018 at 12:51 PM.
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Unread 01-26-2018, 12:37 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

As a middle-ish tier team, I think that the best solution to these COTS parts is having a time restriction on when they are released to determine if they are legal to use in competition. The REV Robotics elevator was created long beforehand, and became a valuable resource in this game, but have a few flaws that require some engineering around to make them work.
Our own team this year used parts from the REV Robotics elevator, like the 8020 and the bearing blocks because they saved time and were elegant solutions to otherwise a large time-consuming task that required machines and parts we would not have necessarily had access to.
However, this Greyt claw and elevator were custom made for the game and take out a lot of innovation for newer teams, or teams that buy them in general because they're well-designed for little effort.
However, I know that there are teams out there that do not have the ability to machine anything competitive, and I do think that there is an underlying issue with FIRST and new teams.
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Unread 01-26-2018, 03:33 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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"Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience"
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I hope people take your advice.
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Unread 01-26-2018, 03:51 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

It's interesting that some people don't consider integrating someone else's system into your own design a valid form of engineering... Putting a big system like this on a robot is not a plug and play operation, there's still plenty of room for problem solving and learning - it'll probably even be necessary. Integrating systems isn't that easy.
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Unread 01-26-2018, 06:44 PM
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Re: Greyt Universal Cascade Elevator and Powercube Claw

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Originally Posted by connor.worley View Post
It's interesting that some people don't consider integrating someone else's system into your own design a valid form of engineering... Putting a big system like this on a robot is not a plug and play operation, there's still plenty of room for problem solving and learning - it'll probably even be necessary. Integrating systems isn't that easy.
Arguably, integrating systems is where many teams absolutely fail at engineering-- how many teams had a fuel shooter last year that they couldn't feed consistently? How many designs have issues transferring between their intake and their scoring mechanism? I still remember how many teams designed frisbee shooters in 2013 with zero consideration for how frisbees would actually get loaded to the shooter.

It's mentioned somewhat often on here but ignored at times that a large part of engineering is, in fact, integrating other folks components and figuring out what you need to do custom to do your thing. There's certainly a set of teams that integrating one of these mechanisms represents a large portion of the engineering effort they have to expend during a season.
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