OCCRA
Go to Post All I wanted was a game hint.... :( - JohnBoucher [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > Robot Showcase
CD-Media  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-08-2018, 08:34 PM
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Friends of Waialua Robotics, Inc.
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,577
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 33 The Killer Bees - 2018 Swerve Module

Aint nothing like having the real thing!
__________________

2018 Canadian Rockies Regional Champions, #1 seed
2018 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award
2018 Festival de Robotique-Montreal Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2017 World Championship Woodie Flowers Award Winner
2017 World Championship Darwin Division Finalist Award
2017 Greater Pittsburgh Regional Champions, #1 seed, Safety Award, Entrepreneurship Award
2017 Palmetto Regional Champions, #2 seed, Safety Award
2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
Reply With Quote
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-09-2018, 05:41 AM
Noudvanbrunscho's Avatar
Noudvanbrunscho Noudvanbrunscho is offline
Scout mentor
FRC #4481
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 157
Noudvanbrunscho is a name known to allNoudvanbrunscho is a name known to allNoudvanbrunscho is a name known to allNoudvanbrunscho is a name known to allNoudvanbrunscho is a name known to allNoudvanbrunscho is a name known to all
Re: 33 The Killer Bees - 2018 Swerve Module

Thanks for posting this, very helpfull.

I have one question: Is it for a reason that you decided to go for a 2RS bearing seal (on your 6816) instead of a more common seal like zz?
__________________
2018 - Engineering Inspiration (Daly/Archimedes Division)
2018 - Regional Winners (Orlando)
2018 - Gracious Professionalism Award (Orlando)
2018 - Regional Chairman's Award (Palmetto)
2017 - Regional Winners (Orlando)
2017 - Quality Award sponsored by Motorola Solutions Foundation (Orlando)
2017 - Industrial Design Award sponsored by General Motors (South Florida)

2016 - Imagery Award in honor of Jack Kamen (New York Tech Valley)
2016 - Creativity Award sponsored by Xerox (New York City)

2015 - Team Spirit Award (Tesla-Archimedes Division)
2015 - Engineering Inspiration (Virginia)
2015 - Finalist (Virginia)

2014 - Imagery Award (Newton Division)
2014 - Engineering Inspiration (North-Carolina)

2013 - Rookie All-Star (North-Carolina)

Forty fooouuuuurrrr --- Eighty ooooooonnnnneeee!
Reply With Quote
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-09-2018, 01:18 PM
troy_dietz's Avatar
troy_dietz troy_dietz is offline
3D printing, Arm, Alliance Captain
FRC #0330 (The Beach Bots)
Team Role: CAD
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Hermosa Beach
Posts: 225
troy_dietz is a name known to alltroy_dietz is a name known to alltroy_dietz is a name known to alltroy_dietz is a name known to alltroy_dietz is a name known to alltroy_dietz is a name known to all
Re: 33 The Killer Bees - 2018 Swerve Module

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noudvanbrunscho View Post
I have one question: Is it for a reason that you decided to go for a 2RS bearing seal (on your 6816) instead of a more common seal like zz?
For something in this environment, I imagine the rubber reals of the RS bearings help keep out carpet and other field gunk a bit better, and metal zz seals are easier to damage depending on how they're used. Additionally, most rs seals can be removed to inspect the races/balls/etc and reused without issue where the zz seals often damaged by removal, and slight bends prevent them from fitting back into place correctly.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-10-2018, 01:16 AM
Nick_Coussens's Avatar
Nick_Coussens Nick_Coussens is offline
OCCRA GDC Member
AKA: FUN - Michigan Region Recap Host
FRC #0033 (Killer Bees)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Ferndale, MI
Posts: 667
Nick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 33 The Killer Bees - 2018 Swerve Module

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Schreiber View Post
How did the wear on the 32dp gears look at the end of the season - especially the ones with 2 motors on them?
Nothing very noticeable on the 32Dp gears, even the modules with 2 drive motors. The motors are spaced equidistant around the 100T gear, so there is no uneven load on the gear. We ran the 7075 aluminum version of the 32DP 100T gears from VEX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cog
What advice do you guys have for using 3D printed nylon in FRC?

My team is currently experimenting with using our MakerGear M3s to print Taulman Nylon 645.
We got all our printed parts from shapeways.com last year. It was more expensive then if you had a printer and ran everything yourself, but honestly the part quality we got from Shapeways was great, and we knew when we would receive the parts (It was 6 days total from the time we ordered them, which for the drive was fine since we ordered early and were able to plan around knowing the delivery schedule). These parts are Nylon SLS parts; I do not know the exact printer Shapeways uses, but it is definitely a higher end industrial level one.

We have ordered a Markforged Onyx One this offseason and will be likely be printing parts with this in the future. If we feel we need more bandwidth or something though I would happily use Shapeways again. #TeamMarkforged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor McBride
What is the weight (as pictured)? I noticed that the picture shows 1 775 driving but the CAD shows 2. Can you drive it fine with just 1?
We ran a single 775Pro drive motor on our front two modules, and 2x 775Pro drive motors on our back two modules.

In CAD, the weight of the 2x drive motor version with the talons is around 7.25lbs.

I do not know the final actual weight of the 2 drive motor version with the talons, however I can say that the single drive motor version without the motor controllers mounted weighed in at 4.9lbs.

The version of that module in CAD in the past estimated about a quarter to half pound heavier, still haven't totally nailed down where in the model the extra weight is coming from compared to real life. Part of this is likely the printed parts; in CAD they are a completely solid body of Nylon, but in reality because they are SLS parts, while they are 100% fill by nature they are not as dense as what the parts estimate as in SolidWorks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s-neff
Why was that a requirement?
We wanted to bolt into either end of the wheel shaft as a way to make sure the wheel forks could not flex outward at all. If the shaft was a dead axle, then it would act as a great way to tie the two forks together rigidly. With the live axle we cannot do this, so bolting into the shaft was the next best option. Hard to say how crucial this was; I think the module ended up being pretty solid with how the forks mounted to the housing above anyway, but better to be safe on such a critical part of the robot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359
Aint nothing like having the real thing!
We hope you and 359 are enjoying the module we auctioned off at the IRI silent auction! We were glad it raised as much money as it did for the IRI charities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy_dietz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noudvanbrunscho
I have one question: Is it for a reason that you decided to go for a 2RS bearing seal (on your 6816) instead of a more common seal like zz?
For something in this environment, I imagine the rubber reals of the RS bearings help keep out carpet and other field gunk a bit better, and metal zz seals are easier to damage depending on how they're used. Additionally, most rs seals can be removed to inspect the races/balls/etc and reused without issue where the zz seals often damaged by removal, and slight bends prevent them from fitting back into place correctly.
Troy is generally correct on this. That said, I wouldn't say we went out of our way to pick this specific seal type for the bearing over another. It was really the bearing that was available that we found at the time that fit the dimensions we needed. That said, if we had looked into options for other types of seals, we likely still would have used the ones we had.
__________________
FUN: InFiMidation, Show Host (2018-Present)
OCCRA: Game Design Committee (2018-Present)

FRC/VEX 33: Killer Bees, Design/Strategy Mentor (2018-Present)

FRC/VEX 2451: PWNAGE, Design/Strategy/Scouting Mentor (2013-2017)
FRC/VEX 2451: PWNAGE, Team President/Driver/Student (2009-2012)
Reply With Quote
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-14-2018, 09:00 PM
dradoxen dradoxen is offline
CAD/Mechanical Mentor
AKA: Dominic Doxen
FRC #0910 (Foley Freeze)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16
dradoxen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 33 The Killer Bees - 2018 Swerve Module

Thanks for releasing the CAD files. I am greatly enjoying digging though them.

Can you describe how the 64 tooth 20 DP turning gear was manufactured? Was it a COTS part that you guys modified with a router and a lathe or is that something custom made? Is that a press fit into the big 80mm ID Amazon bearing or a clearance fit?

I know Stryke Force uses a spring for suspension in their swerve modules to ensure that each module gets the same amount of traction. Did 33 ever investigate the benefits of such system? Did you guys have any issues with a rigid mounted, no suspension swerve that would make you want to develop a suspension?
Reply With Quote
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-14-2018, 09:14 PM
Nick_Coussens's Avatar
Nick_Coussens Nick_Coussens is offline
OCCRA GDC Member
AKA: FUN - Michigan Region Recap Host
FRC #0033 (Killer Bees)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Ferndale, MI
Posts: 667
Nick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond reputeNick_Coussens has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 33 The Killer Bees - 2018 Swerve Module

Quote:
Originally Posted by dradoxen View Post
Thanks for releasing the CAD files. I am greatly enjoying digging though them.

Can you describe how the 64 tooth 20 DP turning gear was manufactured? Was it a COTS part that you guys modified with a router and a lathe or is that something custom made? Is that a press fit into the big 80mm ID Amazon bearing or a clearance fit?

I know Stryke Force uses a spring for suspension in their swerve modules to ensure that each module gets the same amount of traction. Did 33 ever investigate the benefits of such system? Did you guys have any issues with a rigid mounted, no suspension swerve that would make you want to develop a suspension?
The 64T gear part of the module is one of the printed parts of the module. It snugly fits into the ID of the bearing, and the top part of the module (also printed) is bolted to the 64T gear part. These two parts lightly clamp on to the inner race of the bearing.

We did not try doing any suspension system on the drive. My assumption is there is likely a marginal gain, but I expect it is pretty minimal. 2767 could speak to whether they have measured how much of an impact it has actually had on performance. We didn't feel like the added complexity was really worth spending time on. We did not experience any issues related to losing traction on a wheel from what we could tell that would make us think adding suspension is something we would need for this drive in the future.
__________________
FUN: InFiMidation, Show Host (2018-Present)
OCCRA: Game Design Committee (2018-Present)

FRC/VEX 33: Killer Bees, Design/Strategy Mentor (2018-Present)

FRC/VEX 2451: PWNAGE, Design/Strategy/Scouting Mentor (2013-2017)
FRC/VEX 2451: PWNAGE, Team President/Driver/Student (2009-2012)
Reply With Quote
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-14-2018, 09:53 PM
Mark Wasserman's Avatar
Mark Wasserman Mark Wasserman is online now
Registered User
FRC #2767 (Stryke Force)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2017
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: kalamazoo
Posts: 174
Mark Wasserman has much to be proud ofMark Wasserman has much to be proud ofMark Wasserman has much to be proud ofMark Wasserman has much to be proud ofMark Wasserman has much to be proud ofMark Wasserman has much to be proud ofMark Wasserman has much to be proud ofMark Wasserman has much to be proud ofMark Wasserman has much to be proud of
Re: 33 The Killer Bees - 2018 Swerve Module

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_Coussens View Post
My assumption is there is likely a marginal gain, but I expect it is pretty minimal. 2767 could speak to whether they have measured how much of an impact it has actually had on performance. We didn't feel like the added complexity was really worth spending time on. We did not experience any issues related to losing traction on a wheel from what we could tell that would make us think adding suspension is something we would need for this drive in the future.
Nick's description is pretty accurate. Seems to help in auton but still the biggest gains in a straight driving swerve is a tight drive train, high count encoders, hyper tuned PIDs and a flat frame regardless the the suspension. That said, we will keep the suspension as long as we use our current topology because its there.

Nick, I love your module and could have held it in my hands all day.... like a puppy.
__________________
Not fast swerve, good swerve driven quickly.
Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast
Reply With Quote
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread Yesterday, 12:46 AM
dradoxen dradoxen is offline
CAD/Mechanical Mentor
AKA: Dominic Doxen
FRC #0910 (Foley Freeze)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16
dradoxen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 33 The Killer Bees - 2018 Swerve Module

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_Coussens View Post
The 64T gear part of the module is one of the printed parts of the module. It snugly fits into the ID of the bearing, and the top part of the module (also printed) is bolted to the 64T gear part. These two parts lightly clamp on to the inner race of the bearing.

We did not try doing any suspension system on the drive. My assumption is there is likely a marginal gain, but I expect it is pretty minimal. 2767 could speak to whether they have measured how much of an impact it has actually had on performance. We didn't feel like the added complexity was really worth spending time on. We did not experience any issues related to losing traction on a wheel from what we could tell that would make us think adding suspension is something we would need for this drive in the future.
Interesting the 64 tooth gear was printed. Very cool. Was the gear driving it also printed? If not, were there any wear issues caused by the two different meshing materials? Was there any type of lubrication? (I would assume not, based on the fact its Nylon SLS, but figured why not ask.)

3 inch wheels are pretty small, based on how often we go through the 4 inch wheels, I am going to assume they probably wore fairly quickly. How often did you guys have to replace them? Did you find they wear faster than if you had put them on a tank drive? Would you guys swap modules out when you wanted to swap wheels, or just pull the shafts and swap the wherls? Trying to figure out what to expect in terms of how many times the modules will go on and off the robot over the course of a season.

It was my understanding and opinion that the suspension wasn't super necessary. I was just curious what your thoughts were. Thanks for all the info! And thanks Mark for responding on the matter also!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi