OCCRA
Go to Post We can build it... we have the technology...better than it was before... Better...stronger...faster.... more PINK - Barry Bonzack [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #136   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-26-2017, 06:28 PM
asid61's Avatar
asid61 asid61 is offline
Design Simple
AKA: Anand Rajamani
FRC #1072 (Harker Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 3,081
asid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
It offers motor + controller + encoder at a lower price point than any other standard offerings in the 20-50W class; that may be compelling if you're on a tight budget.

Otherwise, there does not appear to be a short-term compelling reason to use it. The buzz over this motor is that "the camel's nose is in the tent" - FRC has begun including brushless technology. I hope that teams do begin using it where it makes sense, because that will encourage the expansion of brushless options in FRC.
I can buy a SPARK, an AM9015, and an AMT-103 for less. If I absolutely need the 8mm shaft a miniCIM would also work, and provide much more functionality in the form of a 10-32 mounting hole pattern and more power (which you do not necessarily need to use).
__________________
Team 1072 2017-present
Team 299 2017
Team 115 2013-2016 (student)

2018 Davis Finalists (w/ 6474 and 3880), 2018 Roebling Winners (w/ 3476, 1323, and 1778)

Reply With Quote
  #137   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-26-2017, 07:45 PM
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 6,112
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

Quote:
Originally Posted by asid61 View Post
I can buy a SPARK, an AM9015, and an AMT-103 for less. If I absolutely need the 8mm shaft a miniCIM would also work, and provide much more functionality in the form of a 10-32 mounting hole pattern and more power (which you do not necessarily need to use).
Not appreciably less, and you're not getting comparable output RPMs (more money will need to be put into gearing).
__________________
Please take the GreyT Products survey here!
2x1 and 2x2 1/16" wall tubing for sale!

Need help? Check out 973 Remote Assistance and Mentorship Program.

2017 "World Champions"
2014 Galileo Champions
2011 World Champions
Reply With Quote
  #138   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-26-2017, 08:06 PM
asid61's Avatar
asid61 asid61 is offline
Design Simple
AKA: Anand Rajamani
FRC #1072 (Harker Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 3,081
asid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
Not appreciably less, and you're not getting comparable output RPMs (more money will need to be put into gearing).
I think you're correct to an extent. If you run a miniCIM at 3.5V you get the same free RPM of 1700, and your stall torque will actually still be almost three times as much as the Nidec (58 oz-in for the miniCIM at 3.5V versus 20 oz-in rated torque for the Nidec). You'll also draw around 9 amps compared to the Nidec's 4 amps for the same torque of 20 oz-in.

EDIT: I was alerted to the existence of the Neverest motors as well, which come with an encoder.
__________________
Team 1072 2017-present
Team 299 2017
Team 115 2013-2016 (student)

2018 Davis Finalists (w/ 6474 and 3880), 2018 Roebling Winners (w/ 3476, 1323, and 1778)


Last edited by asid61 : 11-26-2017 at 08:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #139   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-26-2017, 08:35 PM
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 6,112
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

Quote:
Originally Posted by asid61 View Post
I think you're correct to an extent. If you run a miniCIM at 3.5V you get the same free RPM of 1700, and your stall torque will actually still be almost three times as much as the Nidec (58 oz-in for the miniCIM at 3.5V versus 20 oz-in rated torque for the Nidec). You'll also draw around 9 amps compared to the Nidec's 4 amps for the same torque of 20 oz-in.

EDIT: I was alerted to the existence of the Neverest motors as well, which come with an encoder.
Undervolting a motor to throw away speed (and power) is a trick you can do... but the Speed controllers will be operating with limited resolution that might or not be an issue.
__________________
Please take the GreyT Products survey here!
2x1 and 2x2 1/16" wall tubing for sale!

Need help? Check out 973 Remote Assistance and Mentorship Program.

2017 "World Champions"
2014 Galileo Champions
2011 World Champions
Reply With Quote
  #140   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-26-2017, 11:36 PM
GeeTwo GeeTwo is offline
Somebody Else
AKA: Gus Michel II
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 5,960
GeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

Quote:
Originally Posted by asid61 View Post
I can buy a SPARK, an AM9015, and an AMT-103 for less. If I absolutely need the 8mm shaft a miniCIM would also work, and provide much more functionality in the form of a 10-32 mounting hole pattern and more power (which you do not necessarily need to use).
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
Not appreciably less, and you're not getting comparable output RPMs (more money will need to be put into gearing).
Yes, I was thinking of the PG-27 being comparable rather than the 9015+AMT-103 or the AM-3109 (motor and encoder for the PG-27) because of the low torque. As Adam notes, by the time you gear it down, you've eaten up the difference. I should have been clearer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asid61 View Post
I was alerted to the existence of the Neverest motors as well, which come with an encoder.
14W max, and the gearboxes are not up to the torque that the motor can dish out; we tore up a couple of NR60 gearboxes last year in non-impact use cases.

In any case, I was throwing the low cost for all three parts as the one situation I could think of where you might find it to be the best case.
__________________

If you can't find time to do it right, how are you going to find time to do it over?
If you don't pass it on, it never happened.
Robots are great, but inspiration is the reason we're here.
Friends don't let friends use master links.
[Quoting brennonbrimhall]: We design a new robot every year, but we can't forget that we also design a new team every year as folks come and go.
Reply With Quote
  #141   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-27-2017, 01:26 AM
pilleya's Avatar
pilleya pilleya is offline
Breaking Out
AKA: Alastair
FRC #4613
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: May 2015
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 591
pilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond reputepilleya has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
14W max, and the gearboxes are not up to the torque that the motor can dish out; we tore up a couple of NR60 gearboxes last year in non-impact use cases.
The VEX testing found the bare NeveRest motor to be nearly 26 watts. So it is reasonably close to the 35w-ish of the Nidec.
Reply With Quote
  #142   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-27-2017, 08:10 AM
Gdeaver Gdeaver is offline
Registered User
FRC #1640
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: West Chester, Pa.
Posts: 1,459
Gdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

On the subject of Never Rest motors and gear boxes, Look at the Orbital series. Nice well made gearbox that can take the motor torque. Hate the 6mm D shaft but, the combo is working well for the FTC team we're associated with. Our team has always like the price and compactness of a 9015 and Banesbot planetary. The vex pro planetary is nice but expensive and large. The problem with Banesbot planetary is that they have terrible backlash and wear horribly. In the off season, We looked at other planetary options to replace the banesbot for a compact solution. We adapted a nema 17 100:1 stepper gear box to a 9015 motor. Designed and 3d printed an adapter plate and mounting plate. The 17 tooth 0.5 mod pinion is common in the rc world. We have been testing this combo since August for our swerve steering and I like this combo. 3 off seasons and hours of driver training. No perceivable wear or increase in backlash. I hate the 8mm D shaft. Going forward The 9015, Nema 17 gearbox, Talon SRX, CUI AMT 10X encoder will probably be our solution for compact robust drive. Why would we consider the Nidec. I just don't see a use. Brushless motors should be in the future of FIRST but not the NIDEC.
Reply With Quote
  #143   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-28-2017, 05:18 PM
MotorMentor MotorMentor is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 6
MotorMentor is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

Here is a link with some ideas. There are certainly uses for this motor...

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...d.php?t=159922


Obviously it isn't a drive motor, but it can be utilized for plenty of purposes.
Really just depends how creative you are with your designs.
Reply With Quote
  #144   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-11-2017, 04:20 PM
fllthenfrc fllthenfrc is offline
Registered User
FRC #4783 (Robo Ravens)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3
fllthenfrc is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

TEAM 4783 RoboRavens is hosting a Virtual Open House for the 2018 Beta testing this Friday the 15th of December at 4:30 PM EST.

This will be a Facebook live session accessible from: https://www.facebook.com/team4783/

Note that we do our development in C++, but a fair portion of the presentation should be applicable to people using other languages.

The session will hosted by the students members of www.roboravens.ca.
Reply With Quote
  #145   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-11-2017, 08:02 PM
GeeTwo GeeTwo is offline
Somebody Else
AKA: Gus Michel II
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 5,960
GeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdeaver View Post
.. Never Rest .. Orbital series. Nice well made gearbox that can take the motor torque. Hate the 6mm D shaft ...
AM's Nubs are rather spotty on fitting 6mm D shaft - sometimes too tight, sometimes slightly loose. The best 6mm hub we found last year was this one.

I noticed this morning that AndyMark has a 6mm D shaft to 1/2" hex shaft adapter. I'm not sure if it's an interference fit, or what could keep it from sliding off if not. Not a recommendation so much as an observation.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis View Post
I think the answer is right in the description:
Quote:
Retain this on your shafts with either a 6 mm collar clamp (am-3473) or a Retaining Ring (am-1438).
The collar clamp has a significantly larger diameter than the 1/2" hex, and is about twice as wide as the remaining end of a NeveRest shaft after installing the hex segment. You could direct-drive a narrow wheel, sprocket, or pulley, but it won't work for many applications. The ring should be OK for applications with minor axial forces.
__________________

If you can't find time to do it right, how are you going to find time to do it over?
If you don't pass it on, it never happened.
Robots are great, but inspiration is the reason we're here.
Friends don't let friends use master links.
[Quoting brennonbrimhall]: We design a new robot every year, but we can't forget that we also design a new team every year as folks come and go.

Last edited by GeeTwo : 12-12-2017 at 09:01 AM. Reason: Added 6mm to second sentence.
Reply With Quote
  #146   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-12-2017, 08:39 AM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is online now
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,117
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - 2018 Beta Teams, Brushless Motors, and More!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
I noticed this morning that AndyMark has a 6mm D shaft to 1/2" hex shaft adapter. I'm not sure if it's an interference fit, or what could keep it from sliding off if not. Not a recommendation so much as an observation.
I think the answer is right in the description:

Quote:
Retain this on your shafts with either a 6 mm collar clamp (am-3473) or a Retaining Ring (am-1438).
__________________
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016-2018; Iowa 2017; Northern Lights 2018; Great Northern 2018-2019
Division LRI: Galileo 2016; Tesla 2017; Archimedes 2018
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:38 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi