Go to Post If 100 people from ChiefDelphi all wrote one full article on something that they are an 'expert' in, FIRSTwiki would be even better. - artdutra04 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-11-2018, 09:04 PM
1sokaczada 1sokaczada is offline
Registered User
FRC #5409
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7
1sokaczada is an unknown quantity at this point
Is going 100% CAN worth it?

We've been connecting the drive motor controllers with CAN and the rest with PWM for the last couple years and i'm wondering if it's worth going 100% CAN? Thw issue for us is we have a lot of motor controllers that do not support CAN. We've been having the issue of PWM's coming loose unless we sticky tack them down.
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-11-2018, 09:23 PM
firecrafty's Avatar
firecrafty firecrafty is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ryan Blue
FRC #1018 (Pike RoboDevils)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 192
firecrafty is a splendid one to beholdfirecrafty is a splendid one to beholdfirecrafty is a splendid one to beholdfirecrafty is a splendid one to beholdfirecrafty is a splendid one to beholdfirecrafty is a splendid one to beholdfirecrafty is a splendid one to beholdfirecrafty is a splendid one to behold
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sokaczada View Post
We've been connecting the drive motor controllers with CAN and the rest with PWM for the last couple years and i'm wondering if it's worth going 100% CAN? Thw issue for us is we have a lot of motor controllers that do not support CAN. We've been having the issue of PWM's coming loose unless we sticky tack them down.
If you need closed loop control on motors, CAN is definitely worth it. If you're just doing basic open loop, CAN can be used, but won't offer any benefit besides a daisy chained connection. There is nothing wrong with using CAN and PWM alongside each other. You'll have to make the decision for yourself and your team.
__________________
"Programming is a science. Writing beautiful code is an art."
Any views I express are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my team.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-11-2018, 09:40 PM
marshall's Avatar
marshall marshall is offline
Discerning and exacting individual
FRC #0900 (The Zebracorns)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,727
marshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

Yes.
__________________
"La mejor salsa del mundo es la hambre" - Miguel de Cervantes
"The future is unwritten" - Joe Strummer
"Simplify, then add lightness" - Colin Chapman
Clarke's Laws
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-11-2018, 09:42 PM
JesseK's Avatar
JesseK JesseK is offline
Expert Flybot Crasher
FRC #1885 (ILITE)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 4,223
JesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marshall View Post
Yes.
^^
__________________
Drive Coach, 1885 (2007-present)

1885: YouTube | CAD Library
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-11-2018, 09:43 PM
Billfred's Avatar
Billfred Billfred is offline
Never look back, no, never say die
AKA: Always attack with the warrior's cry...
FRC #1293 (Pandamaniacs); FTC #11444 (Garnet Squadron)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: The Shadow Realm
Posts: 9,439
Billfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

5402 used CAN heavily last year, but they didn't have a big stockpile of old motor controllers. The result was really great from a control system standpoint.

1293 has nearly zero CAN this year, mostly because they have a big stockpile of Talon SRs and SPARKs.

If I was starting brand new this year with no stockpiles, I'd be inclined to go CAN. But only you know whether your resources could sustain such a wholesale changeover.
__________________
William "Billfred" Leverette - Gamecock/Jessica Boucher victim/Owner/Director of Bricks 4 Kidz in Columbia, SC.

2004-2006: FRC 1293 (D5 Robotics) - Student, Mentor, Coach
2007-2009: FRC 1618 (Capital Robotics) - Mentor, Coach
2009-2013: FRC 2815 (Los Pollos Locos) - Mentor, Coach - Palmetto '09, Peachtree '11, Palmetto '11, Palmetto '12
2010: FRC 1398 (Keenan Robo-Raiders) - Mentor - Palmetto '10
2014-2016: FRC 4901 (Garnet Squadron) - Co-Founder and Head Bot Coach - Orlando '14, SCRIW '16
2017: FRC 5402 (Iron Kings) - Mentor, Coach
2018-: FRC 1293 (Pandamaniacs) - Mentor

113 events (more than will fit in a ChiefDelphi signature), 15 seasons, over 74,500 miles, and still on a mission from Bob.
Rule #1: Do not die. Rule #2: Be respectful. Rule #3: Be safe. Rule #4: Follow the handbook.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-11-2018, 09:50 PM
RoboTigers1796 RoboTigers1796 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Peter Beninati
FRC #1796 (RoboTigers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 166
RoboTigers1796 is a name known to allRoboTigers1796 is a name known to allRoboTigers1796 is a name known to allRoboTigers1796 is a name known to allRoboTigers1796 is a name known to allRoboTigers1796 is a name known to all
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

We haven't regretted it a single second.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-14-2018, 08:36 PM
MrT8's Avatar
MrT8 MrT8 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Eric Tate
FRC #2386 (Trojans)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 27
MrT8 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

Finally this year we have decided to go ALL CAN with Talon SRX's for our motor control. Avoiding PWM cables is a GOOD thing!
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-14-2018, 08:54 PM
dradel's Avatar
dradel dradel is offline
Registered User
FRC #4557 (Full Metal Falcons)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: CT
Posts: 462
dradel has much to be proud ofdradel has much to be proud ofdradel has much to be proud ofdradel has much to be proud ofdradel has much to be proud ofdradel has much to be proud ofdradel has much to be proud ofdradel has much to be proud of
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

We have been between 90-100% can since recycle rush, and can has been wonderful. Last year we used pwm spark that came with kop on our climber because we didn't need any real control or feed back from it, that and we only had a couple srx's left for spares, and $ was tight. That said we did use the pdp to regulate a couple things with the climber.
1: we had the winch spin at 1/3 speed till a load of 5amps was detected by the pdp, then it spun at 100%. we did this so the strap we were using would have at least a full wrap prior to full speed.
2: we again used the pdp current limiting for when we hit davit, to prevent damaging davit, strap, and climber.

Don't be afraid to use the pwm controllers, but know that there are other things in the current pdp that can help if you choose to use them.
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-14-2018, 09:45 PM
streamlined streamlined is offline
Registered User
FRC #1334
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Oakville
Posts: 19
streamlined is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

We've been full CAN since Recycle Rush. Not having to worry about PWM crimps wiggling loose or connectors falling out is a really nice thing. Just solder joints and a few Weidmuller joints are needed, so there are very few things to check if a problem does arise.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-14-2018, 10:27 PM
Tom Line's Avatar
Tom Line Tom Line is offline
Don't lay blame. Fix probems.
FRC #1718 (The Fighting Pi)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Armada, Michigan
Posts: 3,079
Tom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

Going to CAN will not fix poor wiring practices. In fact it will make them catastrophic since one failure can take down your whole CAN bus.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-14-2018, 10:30 PM
slibert slibert is offline
Software Mentor
AKA: Scott Libert
FRC #2465 (Kauaibots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Kauai, Hawaii
Posts: 546
slibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond reputeslibert has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line View Post
Going to CAN will not fix poor wiring practices. In fact it will make them catastrophic since one failure can take down your whole CAN bus.
Been there. Done that. No fun...

Excellent advice.
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-14-2018, 10:39 PM
asid61's Avatar
asid61 asid61 is offline
Design Simple
AKA: Anand Rajamani
FRC #1072 (Harker Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 2,946
asid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line View Post
Going to CAN will not fix poor wiring practices. In fact it will make them catastrophic since one failure can take down your whole CAN bus.
It does save me the trouble of worrying about bad PWM crimps because of the beauties that are lever nuts. In that respect CAN fixed some serious issues.
__________________
Team 1072 2017-present
Team 299 2017
Team 115 2013-2016 (student)

2018 Davis Finalists (w/ 6474 and 3880), 2018 Roebling Winners (w/ 3476, 1323, and 1778)

Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-22-2018, 05:55 PM
tkchan tkchan is offline
Registered User
AKA: Joe
FRC #4546 (Shockwave)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 7
tkchan is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Is going 100% CAN worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slibert View Post
Been there. Done that. No fun...

Excellent advice.
Not too many team has the resources to troubleshoot CAN device problems. Unless they have big sponsor that has good CAN protocol analyzer on hand.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:01 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi