OCCRA
Go to Post Like all teams on the bubble, trying to make plans where we MAY be schlepping 30 kids to St. Louis in 8 days or maybe not is difficult. - Joe Johnson [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy > Scouting
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2017, 08:44 AM
morierrrty's Avatar
morierrrty morierrrty is offline
Registered User
AKA: Megan
FRC #4982 (Olympus Robotics)
Team Role: Scout
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8
morierrrty is an unknown quantity at this point
How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

Hello, Chief Delphi. For one of our meetings, I'm in charge of doing mock scouting (since I'm the lead scout). Obviously, I'm going to talk about how our team does scouting, as well as the benefits of it.

But everyone knows how tedious scouting is, so how do you propose to make scouting more fun? One of my ideas is that for anybody who scouts, they get a piece of candy.

Any thoughts on the matter?
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2017, 09:14 AM
Liu346's Avatar
Liu346 Liu346 is offline
FRC Enthusiast
FRC #0346 (Robohawks)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 34
Liu346 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

Scouting is not meant to be fun but teams like 1114 makes it lie abetting game were they bet like if a team will be over/under 40kpa or 5 gears. they use a pretend currency that they give prizes to the most of the currency at the end of the day.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2017, 09:21 AM
AriMB's Avatar
AriMB AriMB is offline
The Philadelphian emigrant
AKA: Ari Meles-Braverman
FRC #5987 (Galaxia)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Haifa, Israel
Posts: 1,262
AriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

One word: Gamification

(yes it is a real word)
__________________
Studying MechE at the Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
2017-present: Technical Mentor FRC 5987
2017-present: CSA for FIRST Israel
2012-2016: Member FRC 423 Captian, Programmer (LabVIEW), Electrical, CAD, Manipulator, Chassis, Business, Outreach (everything)
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2017, 09:45 AM
Cothron Theiss's Avatar
Cothron Theiss Cothron Theiss is offline
Registered Muser
FRC #4462 (Full Metal Jackets)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Kingston, Tennessee
Posts: 840
Cothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond reputeCothron Theiss has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

I wonder if anyone's tried to do Fantasy FIRST style scouting at an event. Scouters draft their "teams" before the event. Then those scouters are responsible for collecting the data on each of their teams. At the end of the event, scores are tallied and the winning Scouter gets a prize.

And for mock scouting, you can have your scouting team try this for an event that had a particularly good webcast. (Some years may be harder than others.) The drafting would be kinda weird since everyone would already have the results. But even so, have the scouters watch webcasts and record points and whatever data metrics your team deems important. Then, each scouter only accrues points for recorded actions. That will motivate the scouters to actually pay attention. The lead scouter and/or scouting mentor can validate and verify the data the scouters record, and hopefully you can get some good data.
__________________
"It's taking longer than expected, which was to be expected."
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-12-2017, 07:31 AM
S1LK0124's Avatar
S1LK0124 S1LK0124 is offline
Registered User
FRC #0234 (Cyber Blue)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 115
S1LK0124 is a splendid one to beholdS1LK0124 is a splendid one to beholdS1LK0124 is a splendid one to beholdS1LK0124 is a splendid one to beholdS1LK0124 is a splendid one to beholdS1LK0124 is a splendid one to behold
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

That's a good question. To be honest, our team hasn't had the usual "dread" of scouting like it used to. In 2017, we had no complaints (at least that I've heard) from any of the people scouting. There were complaints when we had to have people in the pits fill in for a missing person, but all the team members who weren't designated to another task were happy.
This is probably because of a few things-
1.) Candy rewards. We didn't just give incentives to scout- we just handed each team member a huge bag of candy to pick out of before each match and they had that to entertain them.
2.) We had short scouting sessions. We had a schedule that made use of everyone on the team (Including pit people while they were off) so that nobody was out for too long. Each person usually had 2-4 :30-1:00 shifts. This meant that they had at least 3 hour breaks in between sessions.
3.) Our team had a lot more people to do this this year, but we made everyone scout in pairs. There were two students watching the field, with one entering and gathering data, and the other just watching. This way they had to verify with each-other what the data was before it got entered. This meant that they also had friends to work with, so they were comfortable sitting next to each-other, and could mess around and chat between matches, since it always takes so long to transition lol.
4.) Scouters should feel like they are really important on the team. We let scouters know that their job was really important, and stressed the idea of coming to the scouting meetings that we held during competitions. We could show the scouters the database and how robots were comparing, and they could see the fruits of their work, which made them feel a lot more open to scouting.
So, maybe try some of these strategies for your team!
(P.S.: I am scout captain on my team, so these observations are just from my experience.)

Last edited by S1LK0124 : 09-12-2017 at 07:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-12-2017, 08:08 AM
Eric Scheuing's Avatar
Eric Scheuing Eric Scheuing is offline
Registered User
FRC #0999 (MechaRAMS)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Cheshire, CT
Posts: 444
Eric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant futureEric Scheuing has a brilliant future
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

A lot of these ideas are good, but some of them don't work with smaller teams. If you only have, say, 4-8 students in the stands at a given time, scouting can be a little tough.

I try to keep transparency in what exactly we are scouting for. By letting the students know (or even better, guiding them to figure it out on their own) which robot elements best compliment our game play, they can choose which robots to scout each match. Yes, this means losing out on some valuable data but if you can't collect it in the first place, I don't see the point.

EDIT: I find this helps keep people interested, at least for a while, because they are choosing who to watch and what to watch for. This added bit of autonomy makes it an active-participation event instead of just being handed a book and writing tally marks and can help scouts become more involved in their work. With a little guidance, a lead scout can compile the information needed to make a fairly decent pick-list.
__________________




2005-2007: Bobcat Robotics 177
2015-2017: MechaRAMS 999
2017-???: Elm City Robo Squad 558

Last edited by Eric Scheuing : 09-12-2017 at 08:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-12-2017, 09:40 AM
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,409
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

I've found that keeping scouting relevant the entire event really helps. A lot of teams collect scouting data just to use for alliance selection, which can be dull and tedious. So while doing that, have each of your scouts assigned to a specific match your team is going to be playing in. It'll be their job to become experts on all of the robots in that match, and communicate that information to the drive team in order to help determine the best strategy for your alliance. It's a bit of a closer goal, and helps those in the stands feel like they're directly contributing to the on-field success.
__________________
2007 - Present: Mentor, 2177 The Robettes
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016-2017; Galileo 2016; Iowa 2017; Tesla 2017
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-12-2017, 01:34 PM
morierrrty's Avatar
morierrrty morierrrty is offline
Registered User
AKA: Megan
FRC #4982 (Olympus Robotics)
Team Role: Scout
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8
morierrrty is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

All your ideas are great, thank you so much! I am scouting captain, so it was very educational to see what other teams did for scouting. Again, thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-12-2017, 02:08 PM
BrendanB BrendanB is offline
Registered User
AKA: Brendan Browne
FRC #1058 (PVC Pirates)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Londonderry, NH
Posts: 3,201
BrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

I'm a little confused. Is your question about how to make a mock scouting session more fun as an off season activity in your shop or how to make event scouting more fun?

If its event related, are you having trouble keeping scouts interested while still getting good data or are you stuck with low interest and bad data?
__________________
1519 Mechanical M.A.Y.H.E.M. 2008 - 2010
3467 Windham Windup 2011 - 2015
1058 PVC Pirates 2016 - xxxx

Member of the New England FRC community? Join the FRC New England Alliance Facebook Group
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-13-2017, 07:10 AM
morierrrty's Avatar
morierrrty morierrrty is offline
Registered User
AKA: Megan
FRC #4982 (Olympus Robotics)
Team Role: Scout
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8
morierrrty is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrendanB View Post
I'm a little confused. Is your question about how to make a mock scouting session more fun as an off season activity in your shop or how to make event scouting more fun?

If its event related, are you having trouble keeping scouts interested while still getting good data or are you stuck with low interest and bad data?
I was going for more off-season. We had an influx of new members so we need to teach them what scouting is, since it is so important. I did get ideas from both sides though, which I greatly appreciate!
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-13-2017, 10:13 AM
JesseK's Avatar
JesseK JesseK is offline
Expert Flybot Crasher
FRC #1885 (ILITE)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 4,028
JesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

Scouting starts with a strategy of how the entire team will execute at an event - from robot on the field, to fixing the robot, to eating lunch, and even supporting CA.

The scouting lead has to believe in the strategy, and be passionate about its execution. For example, he or she shouldn't mind staying up the night before elims to find that one robot who can bring some magic to the alliance as a 2nd pick. That could be a student, or it could be a mentor. Ideally it's someone who others want to rally around.

If that person doesn't exist, it's extremely difficult to gamify the role or otherwise motivate a team to gather reliable data.

Small teams should make friends to scout with and share data. It's not always easy, but it's definitely easier if there's someone who is enthusiastic about it.
__________________

Drive Coach, 1885 (2007-present)
Latest Project: Codex-based FRC Comms in Java

2017: Scoring Model | COPR Rank Simulator
1885: YouTube Channel | CAD Library | GitHub

Last edited by JesseK : 09-13-2017 at 10:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-13-2017, 11:02 AM
jweston's Avatar
jweston jweston is offline
Registered User
FRC #6879 (Aquatic Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Avon, CT
Posts: 95
jweston is a splendid one to beholdjweston is a splendid one to beholdjweston is a splendid one to beholdjweston is a splendid one to beholdjweston is a splendid one to beholdjweston is a splendid one to beholdjweston is a splendid one to behold
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

The keys are:
  • Give new students a chance to watch match videos. Choose matches that highlight important aspects of the game so new students can catch up.
  • Demonstrate how good scouting supports good strategy. Present real-world examples of how strategy made a difference in field performance, both better and worse.
  • Take students through some filled-in scouting sheets from a strategist's point of view. Make them up if you don't have any. What kind of info is truly helpful? What kinds of scouting reports frustrate strategists?
  • Remember that scouting can be exhausting. Don't push them for long periods of time. It's counterproductive.
We like to "grade" scouting reports and give feedback to the scouters. We've noticed that students generally improve when given constructive criticism. If you're going to say "Don't do this", you also have to say "Do this instead".

After each event, whoever turns in the most solid performance scouting-wise gets a gift card to Dunkin Donuts.
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-14-2017, 11:11 AM
BrendanB BrendanB is offline
Registered User
AKA: Brendan Browne
FRC #1058 (PVC Pirates)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Londonderry, NH
Posts: 3,201
BrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How to Make Mock Scouting Fun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by morierrrty View Post
I was going for more off-season. We had an influx of new members so we need to teach them what scouting is, since it is so important. I did get ideas from both sides though, which I greatly appreciate!
Candy is good, as well as fostering conversation that is fun and engages everyone so people enjoy being in the stands together. I think some of the best times I had at an FRC event occurred in the stands watching matches or during scouting breaks with my teammates.

My advice would be try to organize the process so it gives everyone a break, but use that break to their benefit. Ask questions in between matches about who they thought did well or what a strength of each team was. Try to hone in connecting what they are observing to the mechanisms they are using. From there you can encourage them to walk the pits and checkout those machines closer. Maybe setup a buddy system with a few members on the team who can go with them to checkout what makes team 9999 move sideways or how 8888 is so efficient at placing gears or why is there a clicking sound coming from 7777 when they climb?

Scouting is really dynamic in that there is a data collection part but also a mechanical side of being able to teach kids about mechanisms through how they perform on the field. Its a great training system by seeing a variety of mechanisms in action up close and on the field to expand horizons in design beyond explaining what an H drive is compared to a tank drive, how it is built, and what it looks like. As a mentor, it is encouraging to see our students move from focusing on pure data to connecting what they are seeing from the mechanisms being used and further relating them back to our strategies and how we can create an effective strategy together.

Overall I would encourage less focus on raw data and instead highlight the why through engaging scouts to explain what they are seeing, who played well, who has what to offer, etc.
__________________
1519 Mechanical M.A.Y.H.E.M. 2008 - 2010
3467 Windham Windup 2011 - 2015
1058 PVC Pirates 2016 - xxxx

Member of the New England FRC community? Join the FRC New England Alliance Facebook Group
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:44 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi