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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-15-2017, 12:23 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

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Originally Posted by SndMndBdy View Post
It's definitely not too late to make changes. That's why we're posting it here - to see how to make the module more useful to the FIRST community. To that end, I have two questions for you:

1. How do you see yourself using the HDMI on it? Are you picturing doing your software development directly on the board by plugging a monitor, keyboard, and mouse into it? Or are you only planning on using it for troubleshooting? Or something else that I'm not thinking of?

2. Would you be willing to spend, say $20 extra, to have that on the board? We're keenly aware that this product is going to be pretty expensive for a lot of teams, so we're keeping a close eye on costs. Our vision is that a lot of teams will use this just for the video-streaming capabilities, and we appreciate the fact for lower budget teams, it's going to be a lot of money just for that usage.
I know we would definitely spend $20 extra for an HDMI port. We used odroids this year and for the most part they worked fine but we had some communication issues in the beginning of development. It was definitely easier to debug by just plugging in a monitor, mouse, and keyboard to see what was happening.
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Unread 08-15-2017, 12:53 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

Thinking about it some more, it would be a lot easier to troubleshoot initial setup dropping on a keyboard/monitor than trying to fiddle with USB over serial.
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Unread 08-16-2017, 09:50 AM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

It would be nice to be able to do development directly on the board. It's much simpler that way for us. The main thing is being able to use it for troubleshooting in a pinch, as our radios and network connection have been extremely dodgy in the pits in past seasons. With that in mind, if we have spent 6 weeks building our entire autonomous based on the TX2 and ZED camera, we would want every possible manner of troubleshooting at my disposal to get it up and running ASAP. I think that's worth $20. However, it is understandable that teams using it just to stream video (no vision or other computing) wouldn't want it that expensive. That said, if you are looking at a TX 1 or 2 just to stream video, you are probably better off spending less money in the first place.
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Unread 08-16-2017, 06:44 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

Quote:
Originally Posted by SndMndBdy View Post
It's definitely not too late to make changes. That's why we're posting it here - to see how to make the module more useful to the FIRST community. To that end, I have two questions for you:

1. How do you see yourself using the HDMI on it?
Personally, I picture myself lugging a monitor, keyboard and mouse to a robot just about to get in queue to figure out why the RobioRIO and Jetson suddenly stopped communicating and oh god I can't ssh in and why is the volunteer yelling at my students they're going to miss a match can't they see we have a last second networking issue for some reason that didn't happen on the practice field and now our autonomous won't work because it relies on communicating with the Jetson at startup which now thinks it should be looking for a DHCP server rather than having the static IP we assigned to it before the event and I have no way to get at it without logging in on a local session and fixing it and wait what match number just finished there's no way we're going to have time to pull it and swap it onto the stock carrier board just to reset the networking setting before we have to get on the field.

Sorry, flashback to like every competition ever. What was the question again?

Quote:
2. Would you be willing to spend, say $20 extra, to have that on the board?
I only have so much hair left, so yes.
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Unread 08-19-2017, 03:57 AM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

It sounds like there is reasonable demand for an HDMI port, so we'll try to get it on there. I actually don't think it will impact the cost very much - in reality likely far less than $20. It will probably make the overall dimensions a bit bigger, but it still seems like a good trade off.

Thanks for the useful feedback!
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Unread 08-19-2017, 04:14 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

This looks really interesting. I would also definitely pay extra money for an HDMI port for pretty much the same reasons KJaget stated. Something happened with the communication with the roborio and maybe ssh does not work due to a static ip problem or using a monitor will just fix it a lot quicker/easier. This would definitely help our team to save some space for our electrical board
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Unread 08-20-2017, 06:31 AM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

Quote:
Originally Posted by SndMndBdy View Post
It sounds like there is reasonable demand for an HDMI port, so we'll try to get it on there. I actually don't think it will impact the cost very much - in reality likely far less than $20. It will probably make the overall dimensions a bit bigger, but it still seems like a good trade off.

Thanks for the useful feedback!
Mini / micro / whatever they call the tiny hdmi port might also be worth looking into if space is an issue.
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Unread 08-20-2017, 12:14 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJaget View Post
Mini / micro / whatever they call the tiny hdmi port might also be worth looking into if space is an issue.
Or maybe a usb C hdmi solution, so its a tiny port on the enclosure itself. And team's would just need to have a usb c to hdmi dongle attached to their monitor or something.
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Unread 08-23-2017, 02:44 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

I would love to see this available before the 2018 season. Also, could you release an STL of the enclosure for those who have access to a 3D printer?
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Unread 08-26-2017, 07:54 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

+1 for some sort of video output solution. I'm fine living in a dongle life to convert to HDMI if a smaller spec connector is used.

We'd definitely pay an extra $20 for that feature. We would do a lot of network troubleshooting in the past and even live development within our shop. A big example is going from DHCP/Static IP addressing on the ethernet connection to get it from our school network (for downloading/updating stuff from the internet if needed) to the robot network (We run static on the robot)
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Unread 08-27-2017, 07:45 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

Our Team would be interested if the stated improvements were made.

I would also suggest making the enclosure friendly to a build environment by making it easy to mount and easy to mount other things to it. For example put mounting holes or studs on the bottom and top and perhaps side if it does not interfere with heat sink function. Perhaps a fan mount on heat sink if needed. I just feel like some companies create a great product and then fail on the enclosure. I feel like the enclosure of the RIO could be done much better.
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Unread 08-28-2017, 09:33 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

Thanks for all the feedback. Here is what I have for version II

1) Real time clock back up
2) HDMI port - full size if possible if not will look at USB C options
3) Remove both antenna connectors BT & WIFI (they should not have been in the v1 specification)
4) Provide mechanical diagram of base mounting flange

I agree adding the HDMI port to be able to use the board as a development machine makes a lot of sense.

I still feel the micro USB solution is the best option for trouble shooting in the pits, queuing, etc. Plugging a cable into that port and then into the driver station laptop and launching putty would connect you directly to the boards serial console. The onboard fddi chip would appear as a serial port on the driver station laptop and that could be selected in putty without the need for networking, dhcp, dns, mdns, etc to be running.

Including both options should make everyone happy. Let me know if I've missed anything
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Unread 08-28-2017, 10:10 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

Good

Make it so!
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Unread 09-13-2017, 04:22 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

Quick update on the hardware project.

The specification has been updated and the good news is it had only a minimal impact on cost however to get the first production run to a size we could conceivably underwrite and sell (500 units down from 1000) the price of the carrier board will need to go up to $299.

The Clock has been added along with a Micro HDMI and the onboard antenna's have been removed.

You can see the mounting flange here.

Let me know if the new cost changes things of those who expressed interest.

Click image for larger version

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ID:	22514
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Unread 09-13-2017, 05:25 PM
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Re: FIRST Carrier board/Enclosure for the TX1/TX2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSPRUL View Post
Quick update on the hardware project.

The specification has been updated and the good news is it had only a minimal impact on cost however to get the first production run to a size we could conceivably underwrite and sell (500 units down from 1000) the price of the carrier board will need to go up to $299.

The Clock has been added along with a Micro HDMI and the onboard antenna's have been removed.

You can see the mounting flange here.

Let me know if the new cost changes things of those who expressed interest.

Attachment 22514
Definitely doesn't impact our interest and let me know how we can help make this a reality.
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