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Unread 11-07-2017, 04:45 PM
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pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

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Unread 11-07-2017, 04:48 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

It's tough to get the ball shifter shaft to work in this application. I've tried to package something similar to this (using the shifter shaft "backwards" and with the shifting gears as the pinions for the next reduction), and I'm never fully satisfied with the end ratios and the size of the whole thing. Could you potentially reduce size by shrinking the second reduction gear and adding idlers to keep the CIMs spaced out?

Otherwise it seems like a solid concept.
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Unread 11-07-2017, 04:50 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

Rear view of the assembly: https://imgur.com/a/vTmCw

Has anyone used the WCP pocketed gears for a full season? Looks like I could easily shave half a pound or more with those.
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Unread 11-07-2017, 04:52 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

Is that...4 parallel plates?

Without looking too close on mobile, it looks pretty good. How much does that thing weigh though? It looks pretty beefy.
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Unread 11-07-2017, 04:58 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

9.7 lbs with motors and hardware, assuming I remembered to apply correct material properties to everything.

We used the 2-CIM flipped DS gearbox from WCP this year. It had 4 parallel plates as well and we never experienced any binding or misalignment issues.

I am slightly concerned about overconstraining the main drive shaft, but that's only passing through three Thunderhex bearings which I heard were more forgiving than hex bearings.
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Unread 11-07-2017, 05:00 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

It sure would be nice if you could get rid of those idler gears and that extra plate! This adapter from Vexpro might help, it will let you put slightly larger gears on the motor shafts without having to machine your own pinion gears. You would probably have to adjust the gears used on the output (wheel) shaft to get the speeds you want using this approach, but it saves having to make several parts.
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Unread 11-07-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

Heh, I actually have some of those adapters squirreled away for that very reason. Alas, the issue with the flipped COTS ball shifter setup is that I couldn't get enough 2nd stage reduction before the driven gears got uncomfortably close to the carpet on 4" colsons.

Quick thought - how risky would it be to cantilever the idler gears if I was able to find a way to fit a retaining ring on the inside of the 3rd rail? That would entirely eliminate the need for the final plate.
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Last edited by AustinH : 11-07-2017 at 05:52 PM.
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Unread 11-07-2017, 06:09 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinH View Post
Has anyone used the WCP pocketed gears for a full season? Looks like I could easily shave half a pound or more with those.
Yes, we ran the pocketed 60T and 64T gears this season. They were fantastic, and are still running great after 105 matches and several more hours of driver practice and demos.
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Unread 11-07-2017, 06:16 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

Fantastic. Switching the 84t alone saves a third of a pound per side.
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Unread 11-07-2017, 07:35 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

We ran a 3-cim inverted dog shifting gearbox. We used the 8mm to 1/2 hex adapter to get the spacing on the first stage that allowed us to fit the dog gears in between the cims. All of the cim shafts and the first reduction were cantilevered off of the first plate and retained with shaft collars or retaining clips. We were able to make the entire gearbox with only two plates reducing complexity and weight. This made for a very compact design. We didn't have any gearbox issues the entire season.

This thread doesn't allow you to do attachments so I uploaded a pic of the gearbox to the gallery, it should show up soon

Here is a link to the gearbox

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/45527?

Last edited by bcampbell : 11-08-2017 at 12:21 AM.
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Unread 11-07-2017, 08:10 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt



Added pocketed gears, reduced the rear plate thickness to 1/8", standardized to 10-32 screws. Brought the weight down to 8.9 lbs. I really want to find a way to double up on one of the middle plates but I also really want to avoid running chain-in-tube. The pneumatic cylinder might also hit the 4" wheel.

CAD for the curious: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cf...29jZkBNXoqc_jj
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Unread 11-08-2017, 12:47 AM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

I posted a couple more pictures of how we were able to reduce the number of plates needed to 2 which will help with alignment issues. Also it reduces CNC machining time as well as helps with packaging the gearboxes into the chassis

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...hreadid=160021
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Unread 11-08-2017, 12:46 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

Holy snack cakes Batman, that's a lot of custom plates. How may shafts are constrained over 3 points? I see the output, is that it? (shiftier shaft doesn't really count)
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Unread 11-08-2017, 02:34 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

Go look at 1477's 2013 robot if you can find pictures. Repackaging a ball-shifter shouldn't use more than 3 plates, the trick is to recreate vexpro's ball-shifter gearbox layout as in 2 84t spacings but reorient the shifter shaft in order to flip the cims outward. That way you can also use the vexpro published speed- ratio tables and be able to easily change your high and low speeds throughout season.

In terms of custom parts in the gearbox, you should be at 3 plates, however many standoffs you like, and 2 shafts.
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Unread 11-09-2017, 01:23 PM
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Re: pic: Inverted 2-CIM Ball Shifter - 1st Attempt

Speaking of space reduction, is it insane to want to use a CIM adapter and a 3:1 Versaplanetary stage? Can those be used in drivetrain applications if it's well within the load rating guide? That buys me a significant first stage reduction, a 1/2 hex shaft, and a diameter reduction for cleaner packaging near the ball shifting cluster.
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