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Unread 03-06-2017, 12:28 PM
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Nathan Streeter Nathan Streeter is offline
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Originally Posted by wesleyac View Post
Do you have data on how much force the hopper actually takes to open? Did you actually measure that it took more than 25 lbs, or is that your guess based on feeling it? If that is based on feel, what would you estimate the actual activation force is?

There are so many unknowns about the field this year, so I'd love to get a data point for a real hopper's activation force.
Nope; no data, unfortunately. At Week Zero (the Week 0 with the official field in NH) we attempted a 40kpa auto which relies on triggering the hopper by strafing into it sideways and hitting it with our bumper (our bumper's roughly within 0.5" of the floor). It never triggered the hopper in auto, and I think the only way we could trigger it in teleop was driving into it with a bit of a "running start." Since we didn't want to rely on a significant amount of momentum to get the hoppers to deploy consistently, we tried adding something that would extend beyond the frame perimeter by a few inches so we could press on the hopper higher up (>12" above the floor). At Week 0 we bolted a 2x4 to the outside of the robot (outside the frame perimeter), which worked very nicely.

Since Week 0, we've been making a mechanism that starts within the frame perimeter and then extends outward to ensure reliable hopper actuation... but our only experience was ~4-6 matches at the first field that FIRST ever assembled for an event (Week Zero).

I didn't attend Week 0, but I'd guess that with the top edge of our bumper roughly 5" above the floor, it was taking >60 pounds of force to trigger THAT HOPPER, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was over 100. Maybe this was at the high end of what the hoppers will be, but we didn't want to leave that up to chance.

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Originally Posted by SamcFuchs View Post
At one point our robot sideswiped one and it barely moved, so I would tend to corroborate his suspicion.
I'd be very interested to hear what 33, 118, 2481, or the others who were autonomously triggering the hoppers in Week 1 found. It seemed from the webcast that all of them required some adjustments to get their 40kpa autos working (with various accuracy) on the real field.
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Last edited by Nathan Streeter : 03-06-2017 at 12:39 PM.
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Unread 03-06-2017, 12:38 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

Off course a lot depends on where your bumper actually contact the bar.. 6" is on the high side. You are making a moment arm with the pivot just above floor level. Depending on tolerances and such you are actually lifting the hopper bottom a little before it drops. Lots of moving parts. I agree that this should be well stated in the manual. Whether or not the variance should be part of the challenge is a separate debate.
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Unread 03-06-2017, 12:48 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter View Post
I'd be very interested to hear what 33, 118, 2481, or the others who were autonomously triggering the hoppers in Week 1 found. It seemed from the webcast that all of them required some adjustments to get their 40kpa autos working (with various accuracy) on the real field.
We had 99 problems but triggering the hopper wasn't one. Touching the triggers with minimal force would drop the fuel.

Cheers, Bryan
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Unread 03-06-2017, 12:56 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Originally Posted by BJC View Post
We had 99 problems but triggering the hopper wasn't one. Touching the triggers with minimal force would drop the fuel.

Cheers, Bryan
Our biggest issue with the hoppers and triggering them was down to 3 things:

-The hopper bins would dump about 5 inches lower than indicated by the field drawings (Queue Sean Lavey and others explaining that the field can be +/- 5 inches because the manual says so...). This was actually solved by a volunteer using string at the right height.

-The hoppers were not fastened to the floor or field perimeter in any method. They were literally just hanging around and could be easy moved by a person or a robot. This lead to issue #3.

-The hoppers, on multiple occasions, FELL INTO THE FIELD and onto our robot, breaking it. This seems like a fairly major oversight and not something all that hard to solve.
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Unread 03-06-2017, 01:43 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Originally Posted by marshall View Post
Our biggest issue with the hoppers and triggering them was down to 3 things:

-The hopper bins would dump about 5 inches lower than indicated by the field drawings (Queue Sean Lavey and others explaining that the field can be +/- 5 inches because the manual says so...). This was actually solved by a volunteer using string at the right height.

-The hoppers were not fastened to the floor or field perimeter in any method. They were literally just hanging around and could be easy moved by a person or a robot. This lead to issue #3.

-The hoppers, on multiple occasions, FELL INTO THE FIELD and onto our robot, breaking it. This seems like a fairly major oversight and not something all that hard to solve.
During the field setup for Northern Lights and Lake Superior I questioned why there wasn't velcro on the bottom of the Hoppers. I couldn't get an answer other than "It's not on the field drawings". This is a 20 minute fix that can easily be applied during the initial field build. Hopefully FIRST comes out with updated field drawings that include velcro on the bottom of the Hoppers.
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Unread 03-06-2017, 01:46 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Originally Posted by Ginger Power View Post
During the field setup for Northern Lights and Lake Superior I questioned why there wasn't velcro on the bottom of the Hoppers. I couldn't get an answer other than "It's not on the field drawings". This is a 20 minute fix that can easily be applied during the initial field build. Hopefully FIRST comes out with updated field drawings that include velcro on the bottom of the Hoppers.
"It's not on the field drawings" is actually trademarked by FIRST like gracious professionalism.
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Unread 03-06-2017, 01:48 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

And here's a fun fact: even if you do manage to trigger the hopper, it may jam and not empty all the balls into your bot.
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Unread 03-06-2017, 01:51 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Originally Posted by ToddF View Post
And here's a fun fact: even if you do manage to trigger the hopper, it may jam and not empty all the balls into your bot.
Not A Field Fault™

We hope this is fixed in the future :/
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Unread 03-06-2017, 01:57 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Not A Field Fault™
Funny enough, it's also apparently not a field fault when 5 of the 6 robots on the field lose comm simultaneously for a few seconds, or are randomly switched back into autonomous during teleop.
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Unread 03-06-2017, 02:03 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Not A Field Fault™

We hope this is fixed in the future :/
Team Update 53: Minor Field Fixes
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Unread 03-06-2017, 02:05 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Team Update 53: Minor Major Field Fixes
FTFY.
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Unread 03-06-2017, 02:12 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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FTFY.
This guy fields?
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Unread 03-06-2017, 02:16 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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Originally Posted by Hallry View Post
Funny enough, it's also apparently not a field fault when 5 of the 6 robots on the field lose comm simultaneously for a few seconds, or are randomly switched back into autonomous during teleop.
It's also apparently not a field fault when the field sound, audience display, and field lights don't work... but that could never affect the outcome of a ma... oh wait. But it could never affect the outcome of an event... oh wait. I'm not salty about Finals 3 on Lake Superior at all...
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Unread 03-06-2017, 02:17 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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This guy fields?
HQ watching the Week 1 streams this weekend.

^Language warning.
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Unread 03-06-2017, 02:18 PM
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Re: Fuel is for The Few (Not You)

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This guy fields?
Fix That Field, Y?
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