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Unread 01-17-2011, 09:46 PM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
If your robot is a good enough scorer, it could possibly be a first level pick, but not for the top 4 alliances.

Unless, of course, your robot has utility in something else, such as defense (blocking) or scoring.
We could do the blocking if we needed to, But if we did this we would take time away from getting the tubes. I guess it just depend how fast we could do our task then switch to defense and still have enough time to set up for the minibot.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 09:49 PM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

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Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
If it isnt the major part of robot, any 10 feet is 10 feet less that you have to travel. And its 20, since you have to go backwards.
Yeah. So the further we can make it throw the better clearly,right.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 02:31 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

Shaf2909, I'm impressed to hear you've got it throwing ten feet. Please let us know how your continued attempts go!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday
Why bother fetching when you can kick the tubes across the field? Food for thought...
Because when you drive across the field it's a lot harder for the other alliance to steal your tubes. Kicking a tube guarantees that someone will be able to get in front of you and bodyblock even more than throwing does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me
The fetcher is probably the most desirable second pick possible at the regional level, IMO.
I agree, though I can see teams also potentially picking defensively focused robots with good minibots.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 02:38 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

I will post updates everyday. Let me know if you have any other questions. Only my FIRST true year so I'm excited to see how our strategy turns out. Thanks for the comments they have helped tremendously.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 06:26 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
The fetcher is probably the most desirable second pick possible at the regional level, IMO.
With two robots that can score at 67/1114 speed (which will happen at the championships), I would say a good feeder would be highly desirable at championships.

My personal thought is that if you can build a robot that can throw a tube from your human player area to the offensive zone reliably (i.e. you are impervious to defense), you will never miss elims.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 06:49 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hibner View Post
With two robots that can score at 67/1114 speed (which will happen at the championships), I would say a good feeder would be highly desirable at championships.

My personal thought is that if you can build a robot that can throw a tube from your human player area to the offensive zone reliably (i.e. you are impervious to defense), you will never miss elims.
That is going too be the fatal flaw to what others are suggesting. If there are 2 scoring bots waiting for tubes and 1 fetcher bot going back and forth with tubes(even just part of the field or that shoots from a semi-low part of the robot) my job as a defense bot becomes easy. I just need to focus on the fetcher bot and the 2 scoring bots become useless and forcing them to get their own tubes. Meanwhile, my team that would ideally consist of 2 scorers(2 scorers, 1 defense being my ideal team) would be free to score without much resistance since the field is now mostly open for them to drive freely. The fetcher robot would be a great strategy if it can be implemented properly. I'd suggest for a fetcher bot to have mecanum wheels. It does lower your pushing power a bit, but if you get into pushing matches you failed as a fetcher anyways. The only way a fetcher could be useful is they can effectively avoid any other robot without getting into a pushing match. Put your focus on speed and mobility. However, this will hurt your chances of being able to switch to a defense bot when needed. If you do as I suggested, it is(in my opinion) the only reasonable way of making a fetcher bot...but you would REALLY be putting all your eggs in one basket.

Note to all: If you build offensively, keep defense in mind always for defense will always keep you in mind.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 07:27 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hibner View Post
With two robots that can score at 67/1114 speed (which will happen at the championships), I would say a good feeder would be highly desirable at championships.

My personal thought is that if you can build a robot that can throw a tube from your human player area to the offensive zone reliably (i.e. you are impervious to defense), you will never miss elims.
The feeder strategy could be this years redirector. If you can execute it perfectly then you will be an indespensible team member, however the majority of teams that try it will end up essentially useless.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 07:46 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
The fetcher is probably the most desirable second pick possible at the regional level, IMO.
Probably at the Championship too.

A reliable robot with the capability to load and offload tubes quickly would be valuable to any alliance. My personal theory is that the method of pickup needs to be as simple and fast as possible - think just dropping a tube from the Feeder onto a peg on the back of the robot.

If this "Fetcher" could also score some tubes on the bottom peg, or even the middle, especially in autonomous, they'll be worth their weight in gold in events with extremely capable scorers.
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Unread 01-19-2011, 01:18 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
The fetcher is probably the most desirable second pick possible at the regional level, IMO.
Really? cause I would think that the time it takes for the "scorer" robot to pick up the tubes negates the benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hibner View Post
With two robots that can score at 67/1114 speed (which will happen at the championships), I would say a good feeder would be highly desirable at championships.

My personal thought is that if you can build a robot that can throw a tube from your human player area to the offensive zone reliably (i.e. you are impervious to defense), you will never miss elims.
At that distance it would be better for a person to be throwing it imo.
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Last edited by Saqtown : 01-19-2011 at 01:25 AM.
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Unread 01-19-2011, 01:34 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqtown View Post
Really? cause I would think that the time it takes for the "scorer" robot to pick up the tubes negates the benefit.
The time it takes for the scorer robot to drive an arm down to the ground is a lot shorter than the time it takes a scorer to run 50 feet and then run 50 feet again with a tube. It also takes defense away from the best robots and puts it on the worst - a great idea!
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Unread 01-19-2011, 01:36 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

I just can't picture this being a viable strategy.

Unless you can throw the tubes really far, really accurately, or are some kind of speed demon, it would just be better to be able to score in the top row. The whole "set down, pick up" thing is way too clumsy to be time-efficient imo. Not to mention that strategy depends on another robot being able to pick up from the ground (we aren't planning to).
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Unread 01-19-2011, 01:49 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molten View Post
my job as a defense bot becomes easy. I just need to focus on the fetcher bot and the 2 scoring bots become useless and forcing them to get their own tubes.
Because there will be a ton of scoring bots that are completely inept at getting their own tubes...

If you're playing defense on the worst robot on the alliance, the alliance has already won. It's lose - lose: Either play a disadvantageous 2v2 matchup, or let two very good robots score even faster than you.
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Unread 01-19-2011, 02:08 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

I agree with Chris that this can be a viable strategy, but I think that the ceiling for this robot's effectiveness is even higher than his post seems to suggest. In that scenario the ceiling is equal to a purely defensive robot without the tube throwing capability, meaning there is no added value.

If the tube throwing robot is also capable of playing defense, they may be able to either effectively nullify a defender while simultaneously at least harassing the opponents offense or force the defender to let them throw tubes unhindered. If the defender hangs around while you switch to defense they are reducing their effectiveness, if they leave you go back to throwing tubes.

The distance the defender needs to travel to switch roles is much greater than the distance the tube thrower needs to travel.
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Unread 01-19-2011, 02:15 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTasty View Post
Unless you can throw the tubes really far, really accurately, or are some kind of speed demon, it would just be better to be able to score in the top row. The whole "set down, pick up" thing is way too clumsy to be time-efficient imo. Not to mention that strategy depends on another robot being able to pick up from the ground (we aren't planning to).
The top row only has 6 spots. As important as the top row may be, it should be a piece of cake for your two best robots to score 3 tubes in a match. I mean, yes, if you can score on the top row and you have a tube and your partners have no tubes you don't drop it so they can pick it up, but far more often the act of scoring will take a little longer than the act of getting a tube, so you leave the good scorers additional tubes to rack up.

Remember - with a finite number of scoring locations, no single set of locations can be that important.
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Unread 01-19-2011, 08:40 AM
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Re: Fetcher/Strategy

I think it's a great idea for an alliance to have a "Fetcher" bot. In fact I think thats what any team that finds themselves incapable of making a successful scoring arm should be going with.

Imagine 2 robots zooming up and down the field with game pieces while another robot just sits in their alliance zone hanging the tubes that are placed in the zone to be picked up and constantly scored (ala team 469 last year).
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