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Unread 01-13-2018, 09:03 PM
MattBaron MattBaron is offline
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Climbing strategy/compatibility

My team has come up with 4 basic strategies for climbing:
1) Climb to top and have extenders that allow bots to climb on us ("Alpha" Climber)

2) Create a ramp for a bot to stand on ("Ramp bot")

3) Attach to somebody else extender/ramp ("Beta" Climber)

4) Climb from the side to prevent obstructing other climbers ("Side" Climber)

We voted down option 1, in part because of concerns that group 3 won't really exit given the unpredictability/lack of practice with something other than the provided bar. We are currently going with option 4.

I would like to see what other teams are thinking and whether anyone will be compatible with bots 1 or 2.
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Unread 01-13-2018, 09:11 PM
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Smile Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

Interesting idea
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Unread 01-13-2018, 09:50 PM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

Many ramp bots never score a climb themselves unless levitate and pretty much (unless dual size huge) negate a triple climb.

So the other options I find to be better strategy/RP wise, since they allow a more feasible double or triple climb with or without levitate.

That being said I don't expect to see much of it until late in the season. Sort of like capture in SH
We will likely try to climb have tried/succeeded when offerred prior, most likely 1 or 2 have not explored 4 yet but its valid
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Last edited by Boltman : 01-13-2018 at 10:53 PM.
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Unread 01-14-2018, 02:28 AM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

There's also option 5, popularized as the "iron cross" in another thread, where you climb and bring either one or two other robots with you. Obviously, you now have to design a climber to lift 450-500 pounds, possibly with one hundred and fifty pounds offset without a balancing robot (if you use levititate to facilitate last minute scoring) and deploy some type of platform or fork for your partners to drive up onto. The advantages being that all you rely on your partners being able to do is move, and clear the wire harnesses. No cheesecake, lifters, or other abilities required for the robots you want to get a ranking point with.
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Unread 01-14-2018, 05:22 AM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBaron View Post
4) Climb from the side to prevent obstructing other climbers ("Side" Climber)

We voted down option 1, in part because of concerns that group 3 won't really exit given the unpredictability/lack of practice with something other than the provided bar. We are currently going with option 4.

I would like to see what other teams are thinking and whether anyone will be compatible with bots 1 or 2.
Our team went through some similar thinking. In my perspective, being able to climb from the side (option 4) would increase your chances of getting that Ranking Point in quals. If you can climb from the side, without obstructing the front rung, then another alliance partner who could climb using that rung (a climbing system based on the what-if-no one-else-can-climb-and-I-want-30-points strategy) + the levitate powerup will give you a well-deserved ranking point.

Then again, being able to take another robot up with you will make you very attractive as an alliance partner.

Just my thoughts
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Unread 01-14-2018, 09:12 AM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

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Originally Posted by MattBaron View Post
..
4) Climb from the side to prevent obstructing other climbers ("Side" Climber)

... We are currently going with option 4.
Just grabbing the box tubing supporting the rung and pulling up on it will not keep you clear of the space under the rung; you'll hang directly below it, and unless your robot is unusually small, will fill most of the width below the rung.

In brainstorming, we had a design which did this, with the hang set so that the robot would have its wheels on the scale side wall, oriented horizontally so we could DRIVE to one side or the other. Didn't prototype it.

We're working on a setup which should allow us to do both 1 and 3 as needed, though we'll probably only design to carry one additional robot, letting the third levitate.
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Unread 01-14-2018, 11:38 AM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

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Originally Posted by Keefe2471 View Post
There's also option 5, popularized as the "iron cross" in another thread, where you climb and bring either one or two other robots with you. Obviously, you now have to design a climber to lift 450-500 pounds, possibly with one hundred and fifty pounds offset without a balancing robot (if you use levititate to facilitate last minute scoring) and deploy some type of platform or fork for your partners to drive up onto. The advantages being that all you rely on your partners being able to do is move, and clear the wire harnesses. No cheesecake, lifters, or other abilities required for the robots you want to get a ranking point with.
Not to mention it will be hella cool seeing 3 robots ascend at once
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Unread Yesterday, 01:11 PM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

The idea here in this link is similar to #2.

https://debug-java.blogspot.ca/2018/01/blog-post.html

Can someone confirm, If the partner Bots in the alliance climb on either side on fold able raised platforms, and the team uses levitate power up, with the bot in middle is on ground, is this considered a successful 3 bot climb for the ranking point?
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Unread Yesterday, 01:24 PM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

As a team our students and mentors agreed upon constructing a robot with a deployable ramp on one side with an extension that folds out the other side of the robot to support both the alliance robots.

To make it clear, we will drive onto the middle of the platform, deploy ramp on one side while dropping an extension off the other side, have the other two robots drive up the ramp:
Robot A: sits on the extension
Robot B: Sits on the back of our robot
(yes both sections are wide enough for both max configurations of drive bases.)

*Game strategy for this indicates grabbing 3 power cubes for the levitate power up which we will do ourselves if need be.
*Neither ramp nor extension touch the carpet thus effectively completing the end game.
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Unread Yesterday, 01:27 PM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by georon View Post
The idea here in this link is similar to #2.

https://debug-java.blogspot.ca/2018/01/blog-post.html

Can someone confirm, If the partner Bots in the alliance climb on either side on fold able raised platforms, and the team uses levitate power up, with the bot in middle is on ground, is this considered a successful 3 bot climb for the ranking point?
I can't even count how many times this has been confirmed in the last few weeks. The thread search tool is your friend here. Check out previous discussions on ramps.
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Unread Yesterday, 01:29 PM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

6) hang independently in such a way as to not prevent any other robots from doing their thing on the rung. This option is neutral in that it is minimally interfering but does not actively assist other robots in any way. My guess is that this will be what wins Einstein, but will be a crapshoot in your average qualification round.
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Unread Yesterday, 02:08 PM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

Where would "attaching a winch with hooks to the rung and cheesecaking loops onto alliance members for said hooks" be?
Its kinda 1 and kinda 3
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Unread Yesterday, 02:23 PM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

The main issue I see with 6 is there is that it leaves you no way to seed #1 on your field without that style hanger being very common. Last year for example on our field (Carver) the number 1 and number 2 seed averaged 3.30 ranking points. So, I think teams that want to seed 1st at competitive events will attempt stratagies that effectively guarantee them that ranking point. As long as one of the other robots on your alliance can move, the iron cross can get you the point, if both move ramps will work. I think that contributes to style 6 climbers being a somewhat rare commodity, and therefor less valuable. But that’s just a guess, shooters were pretty uncommon last year and I would think iron crosses or ramps (while far easier than 40 Kpa solo) will be fairly rare.
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Unread Yesterday, 02:29 PM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keefe2471 View Post
The main issue I see with 6 is there is that it leaves you no way to seed #1 on your field without that style hanger being very common. Last year for example on our field (Carver) the number 1 and number 2 seed averaged 3.30 ranking points. So, I think teams that want to seed 1st at competitive events will attempt stratagies that effectively guarantee them that ranking point. As long as one of the other robots on your alliance can move, the iron cross can get you the point, if both move ramps will work. I think that contributes to style 6 climbers being a somewhat rare commodity, and therefor less valuable. But that’s just a guess, shooters were pretty uncommon last year and I would think iron crosses or ramps (while far easier than 40 Kpa solo) will be fairly rare.
Agree, this strategy will not seed first in quals, since the RP will only happen if there is another active climber on your alliance. I do think that it makes a team valuable in eliminations though, especially if it's fast, reliable, and really does not interfere.
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Unread Yesterday, 02:38 PM
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Re: Climbing strategy/compatibility

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Originally Posted by D_Price View Post
As a team our students and mentors agreed upon constructing a robot with a deployable ramp on one side with an extension that folds out the other side of the robot to support both the alliance robots.
If you can make it package, this is a great concept. We've been going round and round on how to raise ramps. I really like the answer, "don't".
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