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View Poll Results: Do you include your own team on your picklists?
Yes 110 45.08%
No 109 44.67%
What picklist? 25 10.25%
Voters: 244. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 11-06-2018, 06:24 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

One can never improve if they cannot be brutally honest with themselves about their own flaws and shortcomings.

In the contact of robotics teams, this may or may not include adding yourself to your own pick list. But honest self-reflection can also happen in both premortem and postmortem meetings, so as to involve the entire team.
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Unread 11-06-2018, 06:25 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

Yes. For us at least, it helps us have better understanding if we're the best robot, robot #5, robot #16, etc and how the alliance selection will play out.

That being said, we spend about all of 3 minutes on it. Most of the time we only need to ballpark this metric.

It's scrubbed off by the time alliance selection rolls around, but we don't go into these things without knowing where we would rank ourselves among the quality of robots at an event.
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Unread 11-07-2018, 08:59 AM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

So for the initial draft of the picklist, we personally like putting ourselves into the picklist so we understand exactly who would be considered better than us or lower than us based on different aspects of the game.

But once we figure out the order and divide up the robots based on what is needed, we remove ourselves because it really isn't need and you never know when you say your own team number by mistake.
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Unread 11-07-2018, 01:13 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

We normally don't include our team in our physical list, but we like to assess where we are in regards to the competition, as in where are we ranked right now and where we should be. When we do rank teams to pick, we like to compare them to ourselves and see what their advantages and disadvantages are in comparison to us, and how they can work together with us. We also don't normally scout ourselves because we have a lot of our members watching our robot at once and we *should* know what our robot capabilities are. But we do sometimes (for example, last year) put down data for our robot, to gauge ourselves against our competitors and to set a benchmark for others.
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Unread 11-07-2018, 01:26 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

This thread has lead me to an interesting thought experiment that I wonder if anyone has attempted. A lot of the responses (whether or not you rank yourself) seems to be something to the extent of "we follow the data".

This got me to thinking about ways to attempt to remove bias. Has anyone attempted to anonymize their quantitative scouting data to remove the inherent bias that is introduced by sorting by team number? I think this could be an interesting tool to help give a more "honest" evaluation of the field.

Obviously, this shouldn't be the only method used to develop a picklist, as things like team reputation can definitely play a part in those discussions. I'd argue if you were looking to sort by pure performance, doing some type of anonymization would improve the results.

Has anyone attempted this in practice?
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Unread 11-07-2018, 01:30 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan T. View Post
We normally don't include our team in our physical list, but we like to assess where we are in regards to the competition, as in where are we ranked right now and where we should be. When we do rank teams to pick, we like to compare them to ourselves and see what their advantages and disadvantages are in comparison to us, and how they can work together with us. We also don't normally scout ourselves because we have a lot of our members watching our robot at once and we *should* know what our robot capabilities are. But we do sometimes (for example, last year) put down data for our robot, to gauge ourselves against our competitors and to set a benchmark for others.
We are kind of similar.

The pick list that is being reordered during the competition the morning after the strategy meeting doesn't include us.
During the strategy meeting, however, we will include us specifically to look at how we stack up to the competition and how certain alliances could do versus others.
Because of this, we do scout ourselves every year.
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Unread 11-07-2018, 01:38 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

We do like to include ourselves on our pick list. As others have stated, we want to see where we stand among the competition and it can tell us what we need to work on at future events.
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Unread 11-07-2018, 04:56 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

Scouting your own team certainly makes sense - as Sun Tzu said, know your enemy, know yourself, and know the terrain. As noted above, this is also highly useful for selling yourself as a pick. Ranking yourself on your own pick list doesn't make a lot of sense to me - a significant factor of the pick list should be how well a team complements yours. If you've done well (but maybe not team 1 selecting team 2 to freeze out competition), for most games you'll likely be looking for teams which made different design/strategy decisions.
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Unread 11-07-2018, 06:25 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

I canít speak as to what 1712 does now, but when I was part of making the lists occasionally weíd put ourselves on our list to help the alliance selection rep put picks in context.

The best reason to put yourself on your picklist is to avoid flowcharts while still having some flexibility in who you pick.

Example: itís 2014 and youíre picking in an event thatís pretty low on trussers. You got to your rank by finishing cycles in the high goal but there are better high goalers than you available. You expect to pick on an inbounder on the way back up the serpentine. Itís perfectly reasonable to put yourself on your list of trussers; if the pick is to you and no one higher than you on the trusser list is available, maybe hop over to your list of finishers instead of going further down on the trusser list.
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Unread 11-07-2018, 06:52 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Martin View Post
Yes. For us at least, it helps us have better understanding if we're the best robot, robot #5, robot #16, etc and how the alliance selection will play out.

That being said, we spend about all of 3 minutes on it. Most of the time we only need to ballpark this metric.

It's scrubbed off by the time alliance selection rolls around, but we don't go into these things without knowing where we would rank ourselves among the quality of robots at an event.
I have the same opinion, but I classified it under "no."
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Unread 11-07-2018, 07:57 PM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

We know where we rank on the picklist, don't put us on our picklist
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Unread 11-08-2018, 11:10 AM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

Yes, we tend to put ourselves on the list, often to make guesses at what the other alliances might look like. For example, at district champs we were 5th on our field, and we needed to have an idea about what the other alliances ahead of us might look like.
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Unread 11-08-2018, 11:28 AM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

On 157, we generally didn't scout ourselves because we wanted our team to have the option to cheer us on during our matches but I can see the benefits of it

As far as including ourselves on our picklist, no, we never did that. I can see the benefits of this as well if it's something a team chooses to do
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Unread 11-09-2018, 12:11 AM
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Re: Do you include your own team on your picklist?

Up until worlds this year yes. Now there is a toggle in our picklist program for excluding our team number from the pick list.
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