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#1
11-08-2018, 09:39 AM
 AriMB The Philadelphian emigrant AKA: Ari Meles-Braverman FRC #5987 (Galaxia) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Mar 2015 Rookie Year: 2012 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 1,761
pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

#2
11-08-2018, 09:45 AM
 AriMB The Philadelphian emigrant AKA: Ari Meles-Braverman FRC #5987 (Galaxia) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Mar 2015 Rookie Year: 2012 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 1,761
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Based on the maps lbl1371 and Skyehawk posted a while ago, I attempted to make a map showing the "best" city to host FIRST Championship using 2018 team data. I plotted the 100 most populus US cities (well 99, excluding Honolulu), and calculated the average driving time for all North American teams to that city. According to my calculations, the best city is a tie between Chocago, IL and Fort Wayne, IN with a average drive times of 14.18 hrs. The worst city (other than Honolulu, HI and Anchorage, AK), is San Fransico, CA at 32.89 hrs. The full list is at the bottom of the post. You can also find driving distance maps for each city here. The code and raw data used to gather/generate these data and graphs can be found here for anyone interested.

Some FAQs:

How did you calculate driving times for each team?
I used the OSRM API to calculate the routes. You input the the starting and ending coordinates and some settings, and it returns driving directions, waypoint coordinates, and the time and distance it takes.

Did you really calculate driving directions for every team-city combination?
Well no, that would be 3617*100 = 361,700 API calls! What I did was calculate the closest county center (for US teams) or major city (for Canada/Mexico teams), and then count how many teams are in each county/city. I only calculated the drive times for counties/cities with teams, about 890 of them (quartering the number of API calls). To calculate the average driving time for each Championship city, I simply took a weighted average of the drive times for each county/city, weighted by the number of teams in that county/city.

How long did this take to calculate?
About 27 hours. Yes, really.

But [instert city here] doesn't have a(n) [international airport, large convention center, suitable stadium, etc.]
This map only deals with the best cities as far as driving distances are concerned. I don't know much about most of the cities on the list, and can't comment on the viability of any of them for actually holding a Championship.

Where did you get the locations of all of the teams?
The team locations were taken from FIRSTmap, which as I understand calculated them from locations in TBA. I take no responsibility for the accuracy of this data.

Doesn't this not matter in the age of 2-Champs?
Don't remind me. The actual answer is no, it still does have some bearing. FIRST could decide to hold multiple champs back-to-back in the same city to save on transoprtation and set-up costs. In that case, this would be important information.

How can you have Frequently Asked Questions if you've never shown this to anyone before?

Here's the raw data shown in the graph:
Code:
```City			AvgTime
FortWayne		14.18
Chicago			14.18
Indianapolis		14.20
Toledo			14.29
Cincinnati		14.52
Columbus		14.59
StLouis			14.69
Detroit			14.72
Louisville		14.83
Cleveland		14.84
Milwaukee		14.96
Lexington		14.98
DesMoines		15.18
Nashville		15.47
Pittsburgh		15.55
KansasCity		15.64
Omaha			16.01
Memphis			16.23
Lincoln			16.26
Buffalo			16.29
SaintPaul		16.56
Minneapolis		16.67
Tulsa			16.78
Wichita			17.05
Atlanta			17.30
WinstonSalem		17.31
Washington		17.34
Baltimore		17.40
OklahomaCity		17.49
Greensboro		17.50
Charlotte		17.59
Richmond		17.96
Durham			17.99
Raleigh			18.28
Newark			18.35
JerseyCity		18.47
Garland			18.78
Dallas			18.78
Plano			18.80
NewYork			18.86
Irving			18.92
FortWorth		19.04
Arlington		19.05
Norfolk			19.07
Chesapeake		19.29
VirginiaBeach		19.38
BatonRouge		19.48
NewOrleans		19.48
Aurora			19.78
Denver			19.81
Jacksonville		20.49
Lubbock			20.54
Houston			20.70
Austin			20.80
Boston			20.83
SanAntonio		21.61
Albuquerque		22.00
Orlando			22.40
Tampa			22.66
StPetersburg		22.98
CorpusChristi		23.27
Laredo			23.61
ElPaso			23.62
Miami			25.39
Hialeah			25.40
Tucson			26.21
Mesa			26.34
Chandler		26.41
Scottsdale		26.43
Gilbert			26.45
Phoenix			26.53
Glendale		26.55
NorthLasVegas		26.68
LasVegas		26.80
Henderson		26.82
Boise			27.29
Riverside		29.14
Anaheim			29.49
Reno			29.62
Irvine			29.66
SantaAna		29.69
LongBeach		29.81
Bakersfield		29.96
LosAngeles		29.99
SanDiego		29.99
ChulaVista		30.12
Sacramento		30.86
Stockton		31.26
Fresno			31.32
Oakland			31.80
SanJose			32.05
Fremont			32.10
Seattle			32.38
Portland		32.43
SanFrancisco		32.89
Anchorage		68.78```
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Last edited by AriMB : 11-08-2018 at 10:06 AM.
#3
11-08-2018, 11:58 AM
 Chris is me on a break AKA: Pinecone no team (formerly FRC 3929, 228, 2791) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Dec 2008 Rookie Year: 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 8,552
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Chicago would be an excellent location for a world championship. I'm surprised it hasn't come up more often before.

There are two major international airports in town, with frequent rapid transit service between either of them and downtown.

McCormick Place, while surely expensive to rent out, is an absolutely massive convention center with interconnected buildings, potential to seat tens of thousands. It is a couple of blocks from two major rapid transit lines (and surely for a big event like Champs shuttle buses to them could be an option), plus there is a Metra line that stops literally within the venue (less frequent service / more expensive).

You could have Einstein in the same venue; no shuttling everyone miles away for three matches. If you absolutely had to have Einstein in a sports stadium instead of a conference center that has seating for tens of thousands, Soldier Field isn't very far away at all - closer than Ford Field is to Cobo.
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Last edited by Chris is me : 11-08-2018 at 12:00 PM.
#4
11-08-2018, 12:10 PM
 Jared Russell 4933T15 FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs), FRC #0341 (Miss Daisy) Team Role: Engineer Join Date: Nov 2002 Rookie Year: 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,548
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Neat. Now tell me which two cities should be chosen (as well as a mapping from team to Championship) in order to minimize average travel distance assuming a 50/50 split.

This one might take more than 27 hours
#5
11-08-2018, 12:15 PM
 Taylor Professor of Thinkology, ThD AKA: @taylorstem FRC #3487 (Red Pride Robotics) Team Role: Teacher Join Date: Jan 2006 Rookie Year: 2006 Location: Plainfield, IN, USA 46168 Posts: 4,911
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Jared Russell Neat. Now tell me which two cities should be chosen (as well as a mapping from team to Championship) in order to minimize average travel distance assuming a 50/50 split. This one might take more than 27 hours
Indianapolis and Indianapolis.

With 26 hours and 58 minutes to spare.
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#6
11-08-2018, 12:20 PM
 Jon Stratis Mentor, LRI, MN RPC FRC #2177 (The Robettes) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Feb 2007 Rookie Year: 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 5,125
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

I could get behind Chicago. Only a 6 hour drive for me, much better than paying for plane tickets like I do now!
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#7
11-08-2018, 12:27 PM
 PayneTrain Offseason Event Extender AKA: "very active discussion within our community" FRC #0422 (The Mech Tech Dragons) Team Role: Mascot Join Date: Mar 2010 Rookie Year: 2009 Location: The Safety Glasses Table Posts: 2,773
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

FIRST's roots are as deeply intertwined with Illinois and Indiana as they are with New England. I would love to go to champs in either Chicago or Indy. It's a crime Indy has been knowingly passed over.
#8
11-08-2018, 01:52 PM
 Bkeeneykid Chicago Transplant AKA: Devin Keeney FRC #1982 (Cougar Robotics) Team Role: Alumni Join Date: Feb 2015 Rookie Year: 2015 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 682
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Chris is me Chicago would be an excellent location for a world championship. I'm surprised it hasn't come up more often before. There are two major international airports in town, with frequent rapid transit service between either of them and downtown. McCormick Place, while surely expensive to rent out, is an absolutely massive convention center with interconnected buildings, potential to seat tens of thousands. It is a couple of blocks from two major rapid transit lines (and surely for a big event like Champs shuttle buses to them could be an option), plus there is a Metra line that stops literally within the venue (less frequent service / more expensive). You could have Einstein in the same venue; no shuttling everyone miles away for three matches. If you absolutely had to have Einstein in a sports stadium instead of a conference center that has seating for tens of thousands, Soldier Field isn't very far away at all - closer than Ford Field is to Cobo.
I think honestly the biggest issue with McCormick Place is the hotels. Frankly, there's just not enough right there in the convention center (though there's certainly more being built all the time), and the immediate area isn't too terrible, but I just don't think there's enough centrally located hotels to make it worth while. Also, for a half champ, McCormick Place is _far_ too large. Even if you stuffed all the programs under that roof, expanded the qualifications more, there is still just frankly, too much space to be used.

Another issue is where you would host Einstein. The attached Wintrust arena isn't large enough, and I don't think you could host it inside the convention center itself. There's Soldier Field somewhat nearby, but that's open air. The amount of covered fields in Chicago big enough to host the final closing ceremony is surprisingly lackluster, so much so that I'm yet to find a suitable venue that's large enough.
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#9
11-08-2018, 02:45 PM
 Chris is me on a break AKA: Pinecone no team (formerly FRC 3929, 228, 2791) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Dec 2008 Rookie Year: 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 8,552
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid I think honestly the biggest issue with McCormick Place is the hotels. Frankly, there's just not enough right there in the convention center (though there's certainly more being built all the time), and the immediate area isn't too terrible, but I just don't think there's enough centrally located hotels to make it worth while.
I think between the Loop hotels (for the spendy teams), abundant hotels by the airports, and the locations closest to the venue, there's a lot to go around. The Blue and Orange Lines are certainly reliable enough to bring teams from the airport hotels into the city without worrying about getting stuck in traffic. Admittedly I haven't put in the hours for thorough research.

Quote:
 Also, for a half champ, McCormick Place is _far_ too large. Even if you stuffed all the programs under that roof, expanded the qualifications more, there is still just frankly, too much space to be used. Another issue is where you would host Einstein. The attached Wintrust arena isn't large enough, and I don't think you could host it inside the convention center itself. There's Soldier Field somewhat nearby, but that's open air. The amount of covered fields in Chicago big enough to host the final closing ceremony is surprisingly lackluster, so much so that I'm yet to find a suitable venue that's large enough.
I don't think Wintrust is necessarily too small (at least for a half-champ). But one idea would be to use one of the larger ballrooms with bleachers as your Einstein-type venue. Not a traditional stadium per se, but there's enough room for tens of thousands of people absolutely, and that kind of thing has been done in the venue before if I understand correctly.

I'm sure smarter people than me have put thought into Chicago and ruled it out for good reasons like the ones you've mentioned, but I thought it was worth discussing.
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#10
11-08-2018, 03:28 PM
 Richard Wallace I live for the details. FRC #3620 (Average Joes) Team Role: Engineer Join Date: Jan 2003 Rookie Year: 1996 Location: Southwestern Michigan Posts: 4,471
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Quote:
 Originally Posted by PayneTrain FIRST's roots are as deeply intertwined with Illinois and Indiana as they are with New England. I would love to go to champs in either Chicago or Indy. It's a crime Indy has been knowingly passed over.
Indy ran a strong second to St. Louis back in '09. Public transportation was one of the deciding factors then. Venue comparison was another -- STL would not win on that basis now. There will be a similar long-term effect anywhere FIRST decides to go because venues age and have to be upgraded or replaced -- and major sports franchises have nearly all of the influence on that.

Back to the OP -- I like looking at these maps; however, driving distance may not be the right metric for CMP or 1/2 CMPs or Super Regionals, as it must be for siting regionals or districts. Many participants fly to the big show.
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#11
11-08-2018, 04:09 PM
 AriMB The Philadelphian emigrant AKA: Ari Meles-Braverman FRC #5987 (Galaxia) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Mar 2015 Rookie Year: 2012 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 1,761
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Jared Russell Neat. Now tell me which two cities should be chosen (as well as a mapping from team to Championship) in order to minimize average travel distance assuming a 50/50 split. This one might take more than 27 hours
As a matter of fact, I can do it in about 4 hours.

There are 4950 combinations of 99 possible Championship cities. That's (99 nCr 2) = 4851 plus 99 more for holding both Championships in the same location.

For each pair, I sorted the list of counties/cities by the difference between the driving time to each Championship city. I split the list at the half point, producing two lists, each with the driving times for about half the teams to their closer Championship. The average driving time to the Championship pair is then the sum of both lists divided by the total number of teams. (code here)

The results were too long to reasonably embed in this post, so you can find them here. The best pair is Cleveland, OH and Oklahoma City, OK at 11.09 hrs. Detroit/Houston is in the 8th percentile (#380) at 12.44 hrs.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Richard Wallace Back to the OP -- I like looking at these maps; however, driving distance may not be the right metric for CMP or 1/2 CMPs or Super Regionals, as it must be for siting regionals or districts. Many participants fly to the big show.
You're probably right. Unfortunately, I can't reasonably predict what % of teams will fly at a given driving time, or the duration/price of flights between airports. Honestly, that's too big of a rabbit hole for me to jump into. Meanwhile, a long driving time is probably an okay stand-in for having to fly to your Championship.
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Last edited by AriMB : 11-08-2018 at 04:31 PM.
#12
11-08-2018, 07:29 PM
 Skyehawk Nuts N' Bolts AKA: Skye Leake FRC #2767 (Stryke Force, Thunder Robotics, Team F.U.N.) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Nov 2012 Rookie Year: 2011 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 702
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Jared Russell Neat. Now tell me which two cities should be chosen (as well as a mapping from team to Championship) in order to minimize average travel distance assuming a 50/50 split. This one might take more than 27 hours
For a pair of cities with (known acceptable) venues

Indianapolis and Denver is a very strong combo.
https://i.imgur.com/CjKjNFn.jpg

As is Indianapolis and Las Vegas (I have not factored in air-fare)
https://i.imgur.com/MdF67Sq.jpg
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#13
11-08-2018, 10:10 PM
 Dan T. HMU with some sponsors AKA: Daniel Talbott FRC #0340 (G.R.R.) Team Role: Leadership Join Date: May 2017 Rookie Year: 2015 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 64
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Chris is me I think between the Loop hotels (for the spendy teams), abundant hotels by the airports, and the locations closest to the venue, there's a lot to go around. The Blue and Orange Lines are certainly reliable enough to bring teams from the airport hotels into the city without worrying about getting stuck in traffic. Admittedly I haven't put in the hours for thorough research.
Although I like your idea, for a lot of teams, public transportation is iffy at best, for our team, at least, it is too much of a risk (and a hassle) to get a large group of students on public transport, with other teams, in a large, unknown city where anything could happen.

Also I would kill to only have to drive an hour for champs
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#14
11-08-2018, 10:13 PM
 bobbysq Registered User FRC #4646 (Team ASAP) Team Role: Alumni Join Date: Apr 2016 Rookie Year: 2015 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 948
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid Another issue is where you would host Einstein. The attached Wintrust arena isn't large enough, and I don't think you could host it inside the convention center itself. There's Soldier Field somewhat nearby, but that's open air. The amount of covered fields in Chicago big enough to host the final closing ceremony is surprisingly lackluster, so much so that I'm yet to find a suitable venue that's large enough.
The arenas the Blackhawks and Bulls (if they aren't the same one) play in should have plenty of seating, and would allow everyone to have a good view of the field. I think there would even be enough space to hold the pits and 2 fields, if they wanted to do all of Einstein in there.
#15
11-08-2018, 10:50 PM
 orangemoore Registered User AKA: Roger Moore FRC #3135 (Robotic Colonels) Team Role: College Student Join Date: Dec 2012 Rookie Year: 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,339
Re: pic: Championship Cities Driving Distances

Quote:
 Originally Posted by bobbysq The arenas the Blackhawks and Bulls (if they aren't the same one) play in should have plenty of seating, and would allow everyone to have a good view of the field. I think there would even be enough space to hold the pits and 2 fields, if they wanted to do all of Einstein in there.
The United Center would be great. However, the NHL and NBA would both be in the postseason making the venue (nearly) impossible to book
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