Go to Post FIRST, for me, is about mental wrestling with oneself through the ideas of others and learning through this dialogue. - sammyjalex [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-19-2018, 01:17 PM
IronicDeadBird's Avatar
IronicDeadBird IronicDeadBird is offline
Theory Crafting Fo days...
AKA: Charles Ives "M" Waldo IV
FRC #1339 (Angelbots)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,042
IronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When to use the Vault

Id say a decent time is after auto to close a point gap.
__________________
HERO 俺を讃える声や 喝采なんて 欲しくはないさ
I mean when the scariest thing in the room is on your side everything is fine.
Play is for kids this is serious...
Reply With Quote
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-19-2018, 01:22 PM
Jarren Harkema's Avatar
Jarren Harkema Jarren Harkema is offline
Fuel Advocate
FRC #4967 (That ONE Team)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 252
Jarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant future
Re: When to use the Vault

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird View Post
Id say a decent time is after auto to close a point gap.
That would only be temporary though, because the opposing alliance can use that power up as well. A lost lead in auto cannot be made up elsewhere in the game unless you also deny the opposing alliance points.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-19-2018, 01:37 PM
IronicDeadBird's Avatar
IronicDeadBird IronicDeadBird is offline
Theory Crafting Fo days...
AKA: Charles Ives "M" Waldo IV
FRC #1339 (Angelbots)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,042
IronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond reputeIronicDeadBird has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When to use the Vault

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarren Harkema View Post
That would only be temporary though, because the opposing alliance can use that power up as well. A lost lead in auto cannot be made up elsewhere in the game unless you also deny the opposing alliance points.
So are you saying no but yes cause my dyslexia is having a hard time with this. Im not saying the use of a power up Im saying the flat points from vault could make up for a flat point difference out auto.
__________________
HERO 俺を讃える声や 喝采なんて 欲しくはないさ
I mean when the scariest thing in the room is on your side everything is fine.
Play is for kids this is serious...
Reply With Quote
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-19-2018, 07:14 PM
Jarren Harkema's Avatar
Jarren Harkema Jarren Harkema is offline
Fuel Advocate
FRC #4967 (That ONE Team)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 252
Jarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant futureJarren Harkema has a brilliant future
Re: When to use the Vault

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird View Post
So are you saying no but yes cause my dyslexia is having a hard time with this. Im not saying the use of a power up Im saying the flat points from vault could make up for a flat point difference out auto.
What I am saying is that the points earned in autonomous cannot be earned elsewhere in the match. If you are placing cubes in your vault right after auto, you could be artificially closing the point gap. However, there is nothing stopping the opposing alliance from also placing cubes and bringing the point gap back.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-19-2018, 10:24 PM
Donut Donut is offline
The Arizona Mentor
AKA: Andrew
FRC #2662 (RoboKrew)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Goodyear, AZ
Posts: 1,476
Donut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When to use the Vault

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangel View Post
Your calculations for boost and force power-ups are a little off. If you don't own the scale and you use force, you are actually taking 10 points away from your opponent and getting 10 points for yourself for a net of 20 points. For boost, if you already own the switch and scale, you can't really count that as 20 points each as you are already getting 10 for each if you didn't use your boost.

Force 1 - grants ownership of your switch for 10s - 15 total points max
Force 2 - grants ownership of the scale for 10s - 30 total points max
Force 3 - grants ownership of both for 10s - 45 total points max
Boost 1 - double points for 10s while you own your switch - 15 points max
Boost 2 - double points for 10s while you own the scale - 20 points max
Boost 3 - double points for 10s while you own both - 35 points max

From what I understand, force 3 or levitate is worth the most points per cube depending on the situation but a single boost can be pretty good for just one cube.
This is the way I have been viewing the Vault for game analysis. Points per cube can help you decide whether it makes more sense to fill the vault or buff a scale/switch to maintain ownership. It looks like the most valuable Vault actions at 15 pts/cube are:

Levitate 3
Boost 1 (if you own your switch)
Force 1 (if you don't own your switch)
Force 2 (if you don't own the scale)
Force 3 (if you don't own your switch or the scale. Ouch)
__________________
FRC Team 498 (Peoria, AZ), Student: 2004 - 2007
FRC Team 498 (Peoria, AZ), Mentor: 2008 - 2011
FRC Team 167 (Iowa City, IA), Mentor: 2012 - 2014
FRC Team 2662 (Tolleson, AZ), Mentor: 2014 - Present
Reply With Quote
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-20-2018, 09:50 AM
Boltman Boltman is offline
Strategy/Rules/Scouting/Volunteer
AKA: Tom Byrne
FRC #5137 (Iron Kodiaks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,362
Boltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant futureBoltman has a brilliant future
Re: When to use the Vault

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donut View Post
This is the way I have been viewing the Vault for game analysis. Points per cube can help you decide whether it makes more sense to fill the vault or buff a scale/switch to maintain ownership. It looks like the most valuable Vault actions at 15 pts/cube are:

Levitate 3
Boost 1 (if you own your switch)
Force 1 (if you don't own your switch)
Force 2 (if you don't own the scale)
Force 3 (if you don't own your switch or the scale. Ouch)

Levitate 3 if one is not climbing is worth 45 so no brainer...3PC effort
Boost 1 is worth 15 points 1 PC effort especially if no scaler on alliance -or- if a scaler Boost 3 if you own both 35 points 3PC effort
Force 2 is desirable if they own the scale (and/or your switch), net 20 points (-10 them, +10) 2 PC effort
__________________


Iron Kodiaks Team #5137 San Marcos, CA
2018 Orange County Elimination Alliance (5477.5209) QF
2017 Ventura Captain 3 (8, 3882) QF
2016 Central Valley Captain 2 (973, 2135) SF
2015 Ventura Elimination Alliances (696, 1836) SF
2014 San Diego Rookie All-Star Galileo Division
San Diego (Home regional/practice days) : Not chosen '18 Elimination Alliances:'17 (399, 968) SF ,'16 (1159, 812) SF , '15 (3021, 1772) QF

Volunteer @ Orange County 2016, 2017, 2018 Ventura 2018

Last edited by Boltman : 01-20-2018 at 04:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-20-2018, 04:13 PM
MooreteP's Avatar
MooreteP MooreteP is offline
Zen Archer
AKA: Senor Mas
FRC #0571 (Team Paragon)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Windsor CT
Posts: 917
MooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond reputeMooreteP has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When to use the Vault

Oh my goodness,

I love this game.

But, I am not looking forward to explaining it to the casual observer.
Reply With Quote
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-29-2018, 10:27 AM
Badwolfe44 Badwolfe44 is offline
Registered User
FRC #5826
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: chippewa
Posts: 3
Badwolfe44 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: When to use the Vault

Does anyone know if you can put parts of the robot inside the portal? our robot has arms that stick out and could fit in the portal slot to drop of a power cube. this would be much easier than adding something to kick it out.
Reply With Quote
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-29-2018, 10:32 AM
pkrishna3082's Avatar
pkrishna3082 pkrishna3082 is online now
love/hate relationship with swerve
AKA: Parthiv Krishna
FRC #3082 (Chicken Bot Pie) and FTC #13471 Mentor (Minnetonka)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Minnetonka, MN, USA
Posts: 735
pkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond reputepkrishna3082 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When to use the Vault

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badwolfe44 View Post
Does anyone know if you can put parts of the robot inside the portal? our robot has arms that stick out and could fit in the portal slot to drop of a power cube. this would be much easier than adding something to kick it out.
See S05
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game Manual
S05. ROBOTS, stay on the FIELD during the MATCH. ROBOTS and anything they control, e.g. a POWER CUBE, may not contact anything outside the FIELD with the exception of brief incursions beyond the EXCHANGE or the opening in the PORTAL wall.
__________________

My posts constitute my opinions, and mine alone, and are not representative of the views held by my team.
2010-2011: FLL 11083, 13873 (Minnetonka Silver) - Programmer
2016-: FRC 3082 (Chicken Bot Pie) - Captain (2+ yrs), Programming Lead (3+ yrs), Driver (2+ yrs), Operator (1 yr), 2017&2018 Dean's List Finalist
2017-: FTC 13471 (Minnetonka/Tater Bot Hot Dish) - Founding Mentor
2017-: FIRST Volunteer - 2017 North Champs Student Ambassador
Reply With Quote
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-29-2018, 10:56 AM
Badwolfe44 Badwolfe44 is offline
Registered User
FRC #5826
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: chippewa
Posts: 3
Badwolfe44 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: When to use the Vault

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkrishna3082 View Post
S05. ROBOTS, stay on the FIELD during the MATCH. ROBOTS and anything they control, e.g. a POWER CUBE, may not contact anything outside the FIELD with the exception of brief incursions beyond the EXCHANGE or the opening in the PORTAL wall.
Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-29-2018, 12:05 PM
Ginger Bread's Avatar
Ginger Bread Ginger Bread is offline
Official Ginger of Team #4941
AKA: Landon J.
FRC #4941 (Team RoboBibb)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 92
Ginger Bread will become famous soon enough
Re: When to use the Vault

Can you use Levitate if you are the only robot on your alliance to gain an additional climb?

So if you use the levitate power up before endgame and your robot climbs during endgame, would you receive 30 or 60 points (1 or 2 climbs)?
__________________
FRC 4941



Reply With Quote
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-29-2018, 12:20 PM
mjc49's Avatar
mjc49 mjc49 is offline
Coach - Team 3042
AKA: Mike
FRC #3042 (Cobalt Catalyst)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 78
mjc49 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: When to use the Vault

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Bread View Post
Can you use Levitate if you are the only robot on your alliance to gain an additional climb?

So if you use the levitate power up before endgame and your robot climbs during endgame, would you receive 30 or 60 points (1 or 2 climbs)?
--

You would get credit for 2 climbs, the physical climb + the levitate for a total of 60 points.
__________________
---------------------------------------
(2013-Current) FRC Team 3042 Cobalt Catalyst, MN, FTC 8473 Blue Lightning, FTC 9182 Short Circuits, FTC 9183 Storm Warning and FTC 11621 Light Speed
2017-2018 LRI: MN North Star Regional
Reply With Quote
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-29-2018, 12:49 PM
Daniel_LaFleur's Avatar
Daniel_LaFleur Daniel_LaFleur is offline
Mad Scientist
AKA: Me
FRC #2040 (DERT)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 2,312
Daniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Daniel_LaFleur
Re: When to use the Vault

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Bread View Post
Can you use Levitate if you are the only robot on your alliance to gain an additional climb?

So if you use the levitate power up before endgame and your robot climbs during endgame, would you receive 30 or 60 points (1 or 2 climbs)?
Levitate counts as 1 climb. So even if you only had 2 robots on your alliance (1 is a no-show) you can still get 3 climbs.
__________________
"We are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. "
- Tennyson, Ulysses
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:31 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi