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Unread 09-27-2018, 09:28 PM
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Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

As part of the Bayou Workshops on 27 October, I'm doing a presentation on "making the most of the Kit of Parts Chassis". I'm going to assume that the kit this year is the AM14U3, or an evolution of it similar to the transition from the U2 to the U3 - or that the team prepurchases a U3 and "opts out" of the kit chassis. I plan to show what 3946 has done with the U2/U3 over the past four years, and I know of a few other really interesting things, like the KitBot on Steroids and that crazy Meckiwi in 2015. I also want to present things which are appropriate to relatively low resource teams, who have a drill press and band saw (or hack saw) and somewhere between zero and $450 to spend on chassis upgrades. I'll also include some tips on mounting VersaFrame manipulators onto the KoP chassis.

Please post links to pics and descriptions of clever, low cost upgrades to the recent kit chassis here. In return, I'll post my final presentation and pics of my demo items shortly after the workshop, either in this thread or as a white paper.
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Last edited by GeeTwo : 09-27-2018 at 09:32 PM.
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Unread 09-28-2018, 06:21 AM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

I designed pretty simple flipped-CIM and flipped-MiniCIM gearboxes that direct-mount to the AM14U3 a while ago. I never actually built or tested them, so I can only vouch for them in theory. But they should be the kind of thing that a low-resource team could make use of (if they can find a sponsor or higher-resourced team to cut the plates for them).
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Unread 09-28-2018, 12:09 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Gus,

This is great. I'm glad you're working on this sort of presentation to show teams cool things you can do with the AM14U family of chassis platforms.

If it fits with your presentation, there are a bunch of upgrade kits and parts we offer for the AM14U family of chassis (some legacy AM14U and AM14U2, most primarily for the AM14U3,) that might be worth looking at - depending on budgets of teams.

If you'd like any specific insight of other stuff about the chassis, feel free to DM me or post here. I'd be happy to answer that sort of stuff if you need that for creating your presentation.

-Nick
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Unread 09-28-2018, 12:34 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by AriMB View Post
But they should be the kind of thing that a low-resource team could make use of (if they can find a sponsor or higher-resourced team to cut the plates for them).
I am planning to restrict to things a team can build from COTS parts, a saw, a drill press, and hand tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Lawrence View Post
If it fits with your presentation, there are a bunch of upgrade kits and parts we offer for the AM14U family of chassis (some legacy AM14U and AM14U2, most primarily for the AM14U3,) that might be worth looking at - depending on budgets of teams.
Absolutely, this was part of the plan. I was going to start with the basic kit (and why it has six wheels), then things involving only belt, gear, and wheel swaps, then move on to the COTS options (e.g. frame opening, wedge plate, alternate gearboxes), before moving off into a few crazy mods. If time allows, I'll also do a few minutes showing a simple technique for mounting Vex Versaframe based manipulators securely.

Anyway, now that this discussion is underway, I've been wondering for a while about the Mezzanine. There does not appear to be any way to cleanly mount this to the U3 chassis without additional hardware, or possibly by assembling with the risers inverted. Updating the kit and/or drawing to include mounting to the current chassis would likely make this a more attractive option to teams in the rush of build season.
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Unread 09-28-2018, 12:39 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

We used the AM14U chassis in 2015 and 2016. One of the best upgrades we made was to mount the corner wheels on tube axles (drilled out to 3/8" bore) (edit: you could also probably use this tube stock). Then we riveted on these panel nuts on the inside plate so that you could change out the corner wheels without having to hold spacers in place or get a wrench into the frame to hold the nut.

I also recommend these clip-on nuts for attaching upper structure and bumpers, again without having to reach a wrench around for a nut.

Last edited by nuclearnerd : 09-28-2018 at 12:42 PM.
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Unread 09-28-2018, 01:05 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
Anyway, now that this discussion is underway, I've been wondering for a while about the Mezzanine. There does not appear to be any way to cleanly mount this to the U3 chassis without additional hardware, or possibly by assembling with the risers inverted. Updating the kit and/or drawing to include mounting to the current chassis would likely make this a more attractive option to teams in the rush of build season.
Yeah, this kit definitely needs an update/replacement. It was originally designed for the first-gen AM14U.

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Unread 09-28-2018, 01:20 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearnerd View Post
We used the AM14U chassis in 2015 and 2016. One of the best upgrades we made was to mount the corner wheels on tube axles (drilled out to 3/8" bore) (edit: you could also probably use this tube stock). Then we riveted on these panel nuts on the inside plate so that you could change out the corner wheels without having to hold spacers in place or get a wrench into the frame to hold the nut.
We also used sleeve axles in 2016 STRONGHOLD, but this was only of benefit because the center wheel almost never did any work (it was a 4" wheel where the others were all 8"; it was there mostly to help us get off of the edges of the moat) and we had to do so much work on the chains. Why did you have to access the corner wheels more often than the center ones in 2015 and 2016?

I like the panel nuts. IIRC, we at least partially solved this problem in 2016 by using coupling nuts between the sheets, with bolts coming in from both sides.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearnerd View Post
I also recommend these clip-on nuts for attaching upper structure and bumpers, again without having to reach a wrench around for a nut.
Great idea! We've used rivnuts for this in the past, do NOT recommend, as after a few dozen cycles they may start spinning, making a real mess. For these clip nuts, how big do you have to bore the hole in the chassis to get them to seat?

Reminds me:
Does anyone have a solution better than rivnuts to secure the outside sheet? Just about every competition we've had to remove at least one to swap a wheel or motor or belt or something, so the stock screw and nut doesn't really cut it unless you have a fancy socket tool. It looks like the clip nuts don't lie flat enough to let the outer plate fit into the end plates.
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Last edited by GeeTwo : 09-28-2018 at 01:27 PM.
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Unread 09-28-2018, 04:54 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

One of my favourite upgrades to a kit-bot chassis is to mount two parallel aluminum extrusions to act as a base to whatever mechanism they plan to mount. The rails can be longitudinal or transverse, but I find the extrusion to be a flexible means of attaching something to the chassis.

Your other option would be Vex VersaFrame, which would be well suited to a team with equipment limitations.
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Unread 09-28-2018, 05:31 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearnerd View Post

I also recommend these clip-on nuts for attaching upper structure and bumpers, again without having to reach a wrench around for a nut.
This is really cool!! Iíd love to see a picture of how these work in an FRC context- if they work how I think they do you may have just solved our bumper problem that our team has had for the past 3 years.
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Unread 09-28-2018, 07:39 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
I am planning to restrict to things a team can build from COTS parts, a saw, a drill press, and hand tools.


Absolutely, this was part of the plan. I was going to start with the basic kit (and why it has six wheels), then things involving only belt, gear, and wheel swaps, then move on to the COTS options (e.g. frame opening, wedge plate, alternate gearboxes), before moving off into a few crazy mods. If time allows, I'll also do a few minutes showing a simple technique for mounting Vex Versaframe based manipulators securely.

Anyway, now that this discussion is underway, I've been wondering for a while about the Mezzanine. There does not appear to be any way to cleanly mount this to the U3 chassis without additional hardware, or possibly by assembling with the risers inverted. Updating the kit and/or drawing to include mounting to the current chassis would likely make this a more attractive option to teams in the rush of build season.
Could you please put this stuff up here, as we are a rookie team who fits this profile, and are building an offseason bot whith the AM14U3 square deal edition and competing on october 27th, so we could use a lot of this information.
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Unread 09-28-2018, 09:38 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by messer5740 View Post
This is really cool!! I’d love to see a picture of how these work in an FRC context- if they work how I think they do you may have just solved our bumper problem that our team has had for the past 3 years.
That's how we attached our bumpers. There's nothing really to it. Pick the hole you want to attach to (must be 1/2" or less away from the edge of the sheet metal). Drill it out for 1/4"*. Clip the nut over the hole (like this video, although these aren't exactly the same nuts). Line up the bumper bracket over top (you might need a small screwdriver to pull everything into line). Install the 1/4-20 fastener (we use a drill with a socket to make it fast).

*if you drill the hole for ~5/16", the clip nut has a little retaining feature that keeps it centered in the hole so you don't have to re-line it up each time.
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Unread 09-28-2018, 09:48 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearnerd View Post
That's how we attached our bumpers. There's nothing really to it. Pick the hole you want to attach to (must be 1/2" or less away from the edge of the sheet metal). Drill it out for 1/4"*. Clip the nut over the hole (like this video, although these aren't exactly the same nuts). Line up the bumper bracket over top (you might need a small screwdriver to pull everything into line). Install the 1/4-20 fastener (we use a drill with a socket to make it fast).

*if you drill the hole for ~5/16", the clip nut has a little retaining feature that keeps it centered in the hole so you don't have to re-line it up each time.
So then are the bumper brackets attached to the wood of the bumper and come off when you switch bumpers?
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Unread 09-28-2018, 11:44 PM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

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Originally Posted by risho900 View Post
So then are the bumper brackets attached to the wood of the bumper and come off when you switch bumpers?
This was just a quick CAD I did up. the L bracket is attached to the bumper and then it just bolts onto the chassis. The clip is on the chassis.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JaF...ew?usp=sharing

Hope this helps

-Mat
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Unread 09-29-2018, 08:26 AM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by stramat8 View Post
This was just a quick CAD I did up. the L bracket is attached to the bumper and then it just bolts onto the chassis. The clip is on the chassis.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JaF...ew?usp=sharing

Hope this helps

-Mat
Wow thanks a lot. That actually makes bumpers easy
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Unread 09-29-2018, 09:44 AM
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Re: Interesting AM14U2 and AM14U3 upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearnerd View Post
I also recommend these clip-on nuts for attaching upper structure and bumpers, again without having to reach a wrench around for a nut.
Those are nice, though it's frustrating that they don't have them in 10-32.

The last time I put bumpers on an AM14U3 (on 5402 in 2017), we simply put some #10 screws going upward through the frame, put a hex nut on to capture it, and then wingnutted the angle aluminum bracket in place. You can see the studs and wingnuts in this picture.

The only issue came when we got to putting bumpers on the Mk. II version, as the gear pocket interfered with bumpers and we needed to split that bumper mid-season. We could add a second stud on one side (which was reasonably easy since we had ripped off the back of the robot in installing the gear pocket), but the other side couldn't fit one in with how we had the battery. We ended up having to tap the outer face of the AM14U3 end sheet, use a button head screw, and hold our breath. I'm not sure whether that was 100% legal or not, but it made me queasy enough that I wouldn't want to do it again.

Mind you, that issue has a root cause of "we went big on fuel in 2017". For most teams and years, you'll be fine.
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