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  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-15-2013, 02:11 PM
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Duncan Macdonald Duncan Macdonald is offline
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Re: 9th seed decline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Montois View Post
It was not a 'mistake' it was a calculated risk that did not work in their favor.
Calculated mistake would fit better. The rankings I had with me on the field were not up to date, leading me to think we were 10th instead of 12th. The 3rd alliance captain was 22nd on our pick list and the 188-1507 alliance was very strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Montois View Post
They declined assuming out sister team, 424 would select our team.
I have been to FLR twice and my pick list has never been a good predictor for the actual picking. (Probably because I don't know the background team relationships)
  #32   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-15-2013, 04:14 PM
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is offline
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Re: 9th seed decline

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Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
For the data historians out there... what is the lowest seeded team to ever captain an alliance? The 15th seeded is the lowest possible, how close has it got to that?
The 15th seed (816) became the #8 captain at the 2010 Philadlephia regional. As the 15th seed, they didn't have a pick list thinking that it was all but impossible they would be a captain. We (1712) were their first selection. We didn't have a pick list thinking that there was no way we would be selected in the first round of alliance selection. Lesson learned, always have a pick list!

When all was said and done, the #8 alliance of 816, 1712, and 709 did push the #1 seeded alliance (341, 365, 486) to the brink. We only lost the 1st match on a penalty (1712's only penalty of the entire tournament ), won the second match with some luck and a lot of defense, and were looking great 30 seconds into the 3rd match when 365 flipped over. Fortunately for the top seed, 341 then went into beast mode and they won the match 6-3. It was a good (albeit short) run for the misfit #8 alliance.
  #33   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-17-2013, 08:48 PM
Jon K. Jon K. is offline
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Red face Re: 9th seed decline

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkling16 View Post
Has a 9th seed ever declined? Did anyone ever have the guts/motivation to do so?

Here is my story.
At the Lake Superior Regional this year, we ended the quals seeded 9th. We were reasonably assured that we would be one of the first few picks. Since there were a few good robots in the top 8, and we didn't necessarily want to be with the number 1,2, or 3 seeds, I threw out the idea of declining. I immediately got shocked silence, then horrified stares, then threats on my life (I was going to be the team representative). I was told that if I declined, I would be walking the 100+ miles back home that night.

My question is, under what circumstances (if any) would you decline a pick as a 9/10 seed? Apparently, you still have a 96% chance of being a captain as a 9th seed.

Here is the alliance selection data from every competition this year. Thanks to team 2834 for providing their championship scouting database from which I made this.
In 2005, I was team president, and drive team coach. So I went out for alliance selections. That's when it was 1-8 1-8 draft still. We were ranked 9th at champs on our field. We decided to decline an invite from the #4 team because we felt we could field a better alliance and thought we would move up past 8th seed. #1 picked #2 and the MC didn't move me forward so it looked like we weren't in picking position when I declined. It caused such an uproar in the stands because the MC said that there must be something wrong with our robot since we weren't accepting an invite. Then when it came time for #8 (us) to pick, they couldn't figure out what to do. We ended up losing, but put up a strong battle none the less.
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  #34   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-18-2013, 11:42 PM
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Re: 9th seed decline

i would only do it if your robot is completely dead and is impossible to fix before the next round.. this is in the sense of gracious professionalism
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  #35   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-19-2013, 12:00 AM
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Re: 9th seed decline

Quote:
Originally Posted by who716 View Post
i would only do it if your robot is completely dead and is impossible to fix before the next round.. this is in the sense of gracious professionalism
I don't think we're talking about reasons for the 9th seed to decline other than strategy.

This is a limited scenario: You are seeded #9, you are picked, and maybe you think you can build a better alliance from the #8 slot should you get there. Do you accept, which has obvious strategic implications, or do you decline, which is a risky gamble due to relying on inter-top-8 selection?

For this scenario, which does happen from time to time, we are assuming that your robot is functional or fixable (you can do a LOT of fixing by postponing lunch until after your first QF match or taking lunch in shifts, as well as tapping alliance partners' supplies of manpower and tools and parts, so there are very few impossible fixes). Gracious Professionalism, while it has a place in how you accept or decline, should not affect your decision either direction--we're talking strategy, and as declining from any position is not forbidden, it is therefore allowed--and therefore, GP does not come into play. (Your team may see this differently than I do.)



As for whether or not I would decline, or call for a decline, that is highly dependent on situation. If I knew that I was the best robot at doing X hard-to-beat strategy, and there were a lot of decent or good complementary teams to that strategy out there (> 9), I would probably consider doing just that, particularly if there was another robot that used my strategy (though not as well, or with a weakness that I didn't have) within the top 8. On the other hand, if I've got a defensive specialist... I'm taking the offer of alliance. Defenders don't go in the first round unless they're REALLY good at what they do.
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