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Unread 04-29-2017, 08:12 PM
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Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

I'd like to start this thread to have one good spot for all the pictures you took of the mechanism and up-close shots of robots this year! There was a great Google Drive going around last year, hopefully that starts again this year!

Please post any pictures you have of things like:
- Gear mechs
- Shooters
- Drivetrains
- Agitators
- Much More!
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Unread 04-29-2017, 08:17 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Great idea for a thread. My favourite part of going to Champs is getting to see great robots up close and asking questions about them! I took a handful of photos for myself but I'm happy to share: https://goo.gl/photos/xDuEjKRqC8r87CdT6
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Unread 04-29-2017, 08:25 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel A View Post
Great idea for a thread. My favourite part of going to Champs is getting to see great robots up close and asking questions about them! I took a handful of photos for myself but I'm happy to share: https://goo.gl/photos/xDuEjKRqC8r87CdT6
Great pictures, I really like the 125 ones, surprising to see they 3D printed so many parts and are so reliable. Same for 1986, their hopper is so simplistic, but seems like they got their geometry just right for the perfect feed!
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Unread 04-30-2017, 12:37 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Here's my contribution from walking around the pits. In particular, Sab-BOT-age (1640)'s CVT swerve was awesome to see:

https://goo.gl/photos/9KkPx5jYQZosEzDj9
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Unread 04-30-2017, 12:41 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by broonswick View Post
Here's my contribution from walking around the pits. In particular, Sab-BOT-age (1640)'s CVT swerve was awesome to see:

https://goo.gl/photos/9KkPx5jYQZosEzDj9
Do you remember what team that last video is? That varying speed drive looks absolutely insane! I also love the killer bees' display for their shooter.
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Unread 04-30-2017, 12:54 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by DopeCADSwag View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by broonswick View Post
Here's my contribution from walking around the pits. In particular, Sab-BOT-age (1640)'s CVT swerve was awesome to see:

https://goo.gl/photos/9KkPx5jYQZosEzDj9
Do you remember what team that last video is? That varying speed drive looks absolutely insane! I also love the killer bees' display for their shooter.

1640

I also think it's crazy cool. I had no idea they did that this year.
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Unread 04-30-2017, 01:34 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Here are some of my pictures from the Ontario District Championships. Features teams such as 1241, 610, 2056, 1305 and more

https://goo.gl/photos/6PMx7MU3eAFWv9m17
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Unread 04-30-2017, 01:59 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

The demo that they gave was awesome and it was really great to see how enthusiastic they were to show it. They told me they had more information about it online and I dug it up after talking to them.

From their wiki: CVT Swerve

CAD: CVT Swerve
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Unread 05-01-2017, 01:46 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by broonswick View Post
Here's my contribution from walking around the pits. In particular, Sab-BOT-age (1640)'s CVT swerve was awesome to see:

https://goo.gl/photos/9KkPx5jYQZosEzDj9
1640's CVT swerve is really cool, but I'm having trouble visualizing how it works - it looks like the belt is changing size, but I assume that there's something else at play. Can someone explain how it works? I've looked at their wiki but I still don't get how the constant velocity pulley operates...

Also, does it automatically shift in software, or does the driver manage the shifting? If it's software, what parameters are used to decide what gear to be in?
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Unread 05-01-2017, 01:59 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesleyac View Post
1640's CVT swerve is really cool, but I'm having trouble visualizing how it works - it looks like the belt is changing size, but I assume that there's something else at play. Can someone explain how it works? I've looked at their wiki but I still don't get how the constant velocity pulley operates...

Also, does it automatically shift in software, or does the driver manage the shifting? If it's software, what parameters are used to decide what gear to be in?
Up above check broonswick's google drive link. The last video is of the swerve on a testing/demo block. This is very similar to how the multi-speed drill press at my team's shop works.
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Unread 05-01-2017, 02:11 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesleyac View Post
1640's CVT swerve is really cool, but I'm having trouble visualizing how it works - it looks like the belt is changing size, but I assume that there's something else at play. Can someone explain how it works? I've looked at their wiki but I still don't get how the constant velocity pulley operates...

Also, does it automatically shift in software, or does the driver manage the shifting? If it's software, what parameters are used to decide what gear to be in?
https://youtu.be/PEq5_b4LWNY here is a video explaning How cvt works. I am wondering How iT worked out for team 1640, What the pro's and cons are.
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Unread 05-01-2017, 03:11 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesleyac View Post
1640's CVT swerve is really cool, but I'm having trouble visualizing how it works - it looks like the belt is changing size, but I assume that there's something else at play. Can someone explain how it works? I've looked at their wiki but I still don't get how the constant velocity pulley operates...

Also, does it automatically shift in software, or does the driver manage the shifting? If it's software, what parameters are used to decide what gear to be in?
I'm not associated with 1640, but I've been watching videos of their CVT for almost a year now and I think I understand how it works. (Also from the description here) Someone from 1640 can come and correct me if I'm wrong.

The first reduction from the CIM is a V belt. The pulley attached to the motor is spring loaded so that tension on the belt slides the belt towards the center of the pulley and the top half of the pulley up. This decreases the diameter of the driving pulley. The servo on top of the module opens and closes two rollers around the belt, which tightens and loosens the tension in the belt. This changes the diameter of the driving pulley, which changes the final gear ratio. A large encoder disc is attached under the driven pulley, and an optical sensor reads the pulses from that to measure the drive speed. I would assume they then use some function of speed to determine the optimal drive ratio, and therefore the desired tension on the belt, and use that to set the value for the servo position.


EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noudvanbrunscho View Post
https://youtu.be/PEq5_b4LWNY here is a video explaning How cvt works. I am wondering How iT worked out for team 1640, What the pro's and cons are.
I imagine one con is that the V-belts carry little force back to the motor, so they can't push very hard in a pushing match. This probably isn't a big problem for a swerve, considering you can just put all your wheels at 45* angles and no one can push you anywhere. It might even be a pro if they explore using 775pros instead of CIMs for the drive motors in the future.
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Last edited by Ari423 : 05-01-2017 at 03:14 PM.
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Unread 05-01-2017, 04:51 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari423 View Post
I'm not associated with 1640, but I've been watching videos of their CVT for almost a year now and I think I understand how it works. (Also from the description here) Someone from 1640 can come and correct me if I'm wrong.

The first reduction from the CIM is a V belt. The pulley attached to the motor is spring loaded so that tension on the belt slides the belt towards the center of the pulley and the top half of the pulley up. This decreases the diameter of the driving pulley. The servo on top of the module opens and closes two rollers around the belt, which tightens and loosens the tension in the belt. This changes the diameter of the driving pulley, which changes the final gear ratio. A large encoder disc is attached under the driven pulley, and an optical sensor reads the pulses from that to measure the drive speed. I would assume they then use some function of speed to determine the optimal drive ratio, and therefore the desired tension on the belt, and use that to set the value for the servo position.


EDIT:


I imagine one con is that the V-belts carry little force back to the motor, so they can't push very hard in a pushing match. This probably isn't a big problem for a swerve, considering you can just put all your wheels at 45* angles and no one can push you anywhere. It might even be a pro if they explore using 775pros instead of CIMs for the drive motors in the future.
Ari423's description is correct for the most part. The only difference is that the encoder on the constant pulley is a custom magnetic tachometer. The servo position is a function of average robot velocity. I'll direct one of the programming students to elaborate on it further.

We haven't tested the belt slip to my knowledge, but we try not to get into pushing matches in general anyway, opting instead to pivot off of our opponents. Our philosophy with swerve is "if you get into a pushing match with swerve, you aren't using it right." Using 775Pros would be interesting, though I would have concerns using only four of them in the drivetrain, six would provide uneven driving power, and eight would then eat up 12 PDP slots!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noudvanbrunscho View Post
https://youtu.be/PEq5_b4LWNY here is a video explaning How cvt works. I am wondering How iT worked out for team 1640, What the pro's and cons are.
Pros:
+ Lightweight compared to other shifting methods (8.5 lbs per module compared to more if we went with a dog/ball shifter)
+ Faster than our previous iterations (estimated speed range between 8 - 16ft/s)
+ Simple to implement with our current swerve design
+ Our previous HTD5 timing pulley ratio used the same C-C spacing, so we could revert back if necessary (it wasn't)

Cons:
- Added extra complexity in all aspects of the drivetrain (five sets of wires per swerve module, extra programming for velocity control/autoshifting, more parts to break, etc.)
- Takes up more side-to-side volume for the servo pulleys
- More difficult for the driver to drive straight (not only did the driver have to fight with slight calibration differences of module rotation, but also slight slipping of the V-belt during initial bursts and during forward to backward changes in robot velocity).
- We had some bugs in velocity control at Champs that prevented the robot from getting into its high speed.
- The magnetic tachometer was unreliable from module to module. This led to a fair number of issues, particularly relating to autonomous. We will be exploring replacing that tachometer with a CIMcoder-style encoder on the same driven shaft in the offseason.

These are the observations I have about it. They may not completely represent my team's beliefs on the CVT swerve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesleyac View Post
1640's CVT swerve is really cool, but I'm having trouble visualizing how it works - it looks like the belt is changing size, but I assume that there's something else at play. Can someone explain how it works? I've looked at their wiki but I still don't get how the constant velocity pulley operates...

Also, does it automatically shift in software, or does the driver manage the shifting? If it's software, what parameters are used to decide what gear to be in?
Ari423's post describes the CVT shifting well, but I can go into more detail if requested.

It does automatically shift between three speeds at the moment (~8, ~12, and ~16 ft/s respectively) depending on how much power the driver is telling the robot and the current velocity (again, I'll redirect a programmer to this thread).

We will be releasing all the information we have on our CVT swerve in the coming months (CAD, code, etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel A View Post
Great idea for a thread. My favourite part of going to Champs is getting to see great robots up close and asking questions about them! I took a handful of photos for myself but I'm happy to share: https://goo.gl/photos/xDuEjKRqC8r87CdT6
This is awesome! I'll upload some photos in the coming days of robots that I was able to get pictures of as well. Does anyone know if a similar album exists for photos from Houston Champs? If so, could you please link to it in this thread? Thanks!
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Unread 05-01-2017, 04:56 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

That swerve drive is insane. Quick question though: I can't understand how the pulley on the CIM can drive the V belt at different diameters. Does it work solely on friction?
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Unread 05-02-2017, 05:14 PM
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Re: Championship Robot Mechanism Pictures 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewit View Post
We will be releasing all the information we have on our CVT swerve in the coming months (CAD, code, etc.).
Rev 1 of the CAD is posted on GrabCAD here. It's not the most recent version (the 2017 season version), but it will give you a good idea of how it works. (I got permission from Andrew before I posted it)
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