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Unread 01-27-2006, 07:35 PM
zachriggle zachriggle is offline
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[Help] OI Modification

What is the legality of opening up the OI and, say, replacing some of the LED's with piezoelectric speakers? I'm thinking a lock-on tone (when the camera has a lock on the target at 5ft., and has aligned the launching mechanism accordingly) would be a lot better than a lock-on LED. Taking your eyes off the robot to keep checking for a lock = bad.
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Unread 01-27-2006, 07:53 PM
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachriggle
What is the legality of opening up the OI and, say, replacing some of the LED's with piezoelectric speakers? I'm thinking a lock-on tone (when the camera has a lock on the target at 5ft., and has aligned the launching mechanism accordingly) would be a lot better than a lock-on LED. Taking your eyes off the robot to keep checking for a lock = bad.
Not even remotely legal. Remember though that the OI has LED outputs available on some of the joystick ports - but you can only draw 10ma of current from them.

Another consideration is that the competition venues are extremely noisy and it might be very difficult to hear a buzzer or sound.
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Unread 01-27-2006, 08:03 PM
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

definatly illeagal, but also if you screw up and break your OI you void your warrenty...
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Unread 01-27-2006, 08:03 PM
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

The definitely legal way to do this: attach a portable computing device (see <R74>, <R77>, and <R78> for applicable rules) and rig it to give the sound. This is assuming you can hear the noise in an arena with loud music and cheering, of course. I'm not sure that modifying the OI in this way is legal, even if it were a good idea (which it isn't).
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Unread 01-27-2006, 08:07 PM
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

See the OI documentation available here. The LEDs are "echoed" on the PWM connectors. If you can find a beeper that works at 10 milliamps, and that you can hear over the noise at competition, go for it.

If the issue is just not wanting to look away from the field to see the indicator, you might consider a "head-up display", with one or two LEDs mounted to the corner of your operator's safety glasses and wired to a connector on your OI.
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Unread 01-27-2006, 08:25 PM
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

See the second sentence in Rule <R61>.

It has been said before, but it is worth saying again: please read ALL the rules for the game! In particular, read sections 3,4,5 and 6 carefully. The manual is chock-full of really useful information.

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Unread 01-27-2006, 10:07 PM
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

If you're looking to do a lock-on indicator, a visual cue is much more effective field-side. Back, in 2003, 67 used a hat-mounted LED to tell the stacker operator when the stack was secured by the stack-hold-down mechanism. So, in any case it is possible, and in fact, we're probably going to do the same target-lock idea you're aiming to do this year as well.
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Unread 01-27-2006, 10:33 PM
zachriggle zachriggle is offline
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

Ooh, I like that idea a LOT more, actually. We'd need a hella bright LED array, though. Anyone know where to get a bunch cheap blue LED's (don't say Radioshack, because I said *cheap* LED's)?

Speaking of LED's... is it legal to interfere with other teams' guidance systems (i.e. spewing lots of IR all over the field in order to mess with proximity sensors). I know it's not legal to cause physical damage, but the rulebook said nothing on this sort of defense.
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Unread 01-27-2006, 10:36 PM
zachriggle zachriggle is offline
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

How many portable computing devices are we allowed to bring? (I was thinking along the lines of a laptop for software reprogramming/modification, and my PDA to link to one of the serial ports to display performance data, etc.).
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Unread 01-27-2006, 11:38 PM
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachriggle
How many portable computing devices are we allowed to bring? (I was thinking along the lines of a laptop for software reprogramming/modification, and my PDA to link to one of the serial ports to display performance data, etc.).
You may bring as many computers as you want to the competition, for use in the pits. However, that doesn't mean you will be allowed to use them on the field.
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Unread 01-27-2006, 11:48 PM
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachriggle
Ooh, I like that idea a LOT more, actually. We'd need a hella bright LED array, though. Anyone know where to get a bunch cheap blue LED's (don't say Radioshack, because I said *cheap* LED's)?
The LED outputs on the OI are current-limited to 10 milliamps. This basically means you can connect only one LED to each output.
Quote:
Speaking of LED's... is it legal to interfere with other teams' guidance systems (i.e. spewing lots of IR all over the field in order to mess with proximity sensors). I know it's not legal to cause physical damage, but the rulebook said nothing on this sort of defense.
You really should read through the whole manual... this question is also addressed directly:
Quote:
<R31> No devices or decorations are permitted on the robot that are intended to jam or interfere with the operation of the vision system (i.e. changing robot color to confuse opponent’s vision system).

<R59> Custom Circuits may not:
• Interfere with the operation of other robots
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Unread 01-28-2006, 08:24 AM
zachriggle zachriggle is offline
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

Is that in the Game section or Robot section (dont have a rulebook handy on me at the moment).

@Edit
Also, the "hella bright LED array" would not be on the OI, but rather on the robot itself (as had been suggested for a visual-cue for a lock-on, as opposed to a (however cool) lock-on tone).

Is there a milliamp limit on LED`s on the robot itself?

Last edited by zachriggle : 01-28-2006 at 08:27 AM.
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Unread 01-28-2006, 09:02 AM
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachriggle
Ooh, I like that idea a LOT more, actually. We'd need a hella bright LED array, though. Anyone know where to get a bunch cheap blue LED's (don't say Radioshack, because I said *cheap* LED's)?

Speaking of LED's... is it legal to interfere with other teams' guidance systems (i.e. spewing lots of IR all over the field in order to mess with proximity sensors). I know it's not legal to cause physical damage, but the rulebook said nothing on this sort of defense.
You won't find any rules for this but Gracious Professionalism keeps you from even thinking about it.
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Unread 01-28-2006, 09:13 AM
Katie Reynolds Katie Reynolds is offline
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachriggle
Speaking of LED's... is it legal to interfere with other teams' guidance systems (i.e. spewing lots of IR all over the field in order to mess with proximity sensors). I know it's not legal to cause physical damage, but the rulebook said nothing on this sort of defense.
It's also illegal to use this "defensive" method.

<R31> No devices or decorations are permitted on the robot that are intended to jam or interfere with the operation of the vision system (i.e. changing robot color to confuse opponent’s vision system).

FLOWCHART: (Page 14, Section 5) Question 1: "Is the part a safety hazard or likely to damage robots, the field, or interfere with the humans or the controls?" ---> "YES" ---> "No! It may not be used!"

Also ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachriggle
How many portable computing devices are we allowed to bring? (I was thinking along the lines of a laptop for software reprogramming/modification, and my PDA to link to one of the serial ports to display performance data, etc.).
It was mentioned above that you can bring as many laptops and PDAs as you'd like, but as for using them on the field, that's a no-no.

<R59> Custom Circuits may not:
Interfere with the operation of other robots
• Directly alter the power pathways between the battery, fuse blocks, speed controller/relay, and motor. Custom high impedance voltage monitoring or low impedance current monitoring circuitry connected to the robot’s electrical system is acceptable, because the effect on the robot outputs should be
inconsequential.
• Directly affect any output devices on the robot, such as by providing power directly to a motor, supplying a PWM signal to a speed controller or supplying a control signal to a relay module
Be used for wireless communication, such as sending or receiving a signal to and/or from the alliance station
Connect to the radio or tether ports on the Robot Controller
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Unread 01-29-2006, 12:46 AM
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Re: [Help] OI Modification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Reynolds
It was mentioned above that you can bring as many laptops and PDAs as you'd like, but as for using them on the field, that's a no-no.

<R59> Custom Circuits may not:
Interfere with the operation of other robots
• Directly alter the power pathways between the battery, fuse blocks, speed controller/relay, and motor. Custom high impedance voltage monitoring or low impedance current monitoring circuitry connected to the robot’s electrical system is acceptable, because the effect on the robot outputs should be
inconsequential.
• Directly affect any output devices on the robot, such as by providing power directly to a motor, supplying a PWM signal to a speed controller or supplying a control signal to a relay module
Be used for wireless communication, such as sending or receiving a signal to and/or from the alliance station
Connect to the radio or tether ports on the Robot Controller
Yes--and no. You are allowed to hook them up to the OI, as per the rules in my previous post in this thread. You can have the RC tell the OI to make x device make y noise. That's legal. Having a portable computing device (laptop, PDA, etc) on the robot--the inspectors will call you on it pretty quickly, and so will the refs if the inspectors miss it.
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