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View Poll Results: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
No, they are the best. 15 9.74%
Yes, they can be beat. (post who you think is better) 139 90.26%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 06-26-2008, 11:03 AM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

Any combination of teams can be beat. Some are better than others, but sometimes even things like luck factor in. 1114, 217, and 148 all built great robots that were functional, efficient, and durable, had incredible students, mentors, drive teams, pit crews, and coaches (etc.) supporting them, had obviously done their scouting homework, had great strategy, and were well-matched in that they worked well together. But by the end of the season, in those last few matches on Einstein, there were moments where each of them looked a little bit worn out. It happens, even to the best teams. I'm not sure which teams on an alliance could beat them- there are a lot of good teams, but I'm not sure which ones would have the chemistry and strategy to beat that alliance- but I'm sure it is possible, because no one is infallible, no matter how good they are.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 11:05 AM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

i Think if 2056 made it to the einstein field they could have maybe beat them with idk towo other alliance partners because in waterloo, there was two matches that 1114 lost, one was because their alliance partners got them 60 points of penatlies and the other one they lost to 2056. it was literally 2056 vs 1114 in that match because they were doing the scoring.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 12:37 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

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Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
The alliance with the best shot, imho, would be 968/1124/201.
In those tight corners and how 1114 plays, I personally think parts of 1124's grabber could potentially break. It would be risky to play. I think the Poof/RAWC/201 would work.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 12:48 PM
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Unread 06-26-2008, 01:49 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

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Originally Posted by lilstogi11 View Post
In those tight corners and how 1114 plays, I personally think parts of 1124's grabber could potentially break. It would be risky to play. I think the Poof/RAWC/201 would work.
Our gripper is actually a lot more at risk when it's out in the open field without a ball- that's when people latch onto it and rip it apart, and we have to stand there and watch. We can still play with one of our four "fingers" broken though, sometimes even two. Not sure how well it would compare on the Einstein field, though.

I'm gonna have to agree with you that 1124 does not belong in the winning alliance, but for other reasons. As much as I love my team and our robot, I don't think that we can achieve the same efficiency with our arm as a lot of the launcher robots do. The best of the best launcher robots always seem to outscore us, even if only by a little, but a few points here and there add up.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 02:18 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

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Originally Posted by smurfgirl View Post
Our gripper is actually a lot more at risk when it's out in the open field without a ball- that's when people latch onto it and rip it apart, and we have to stand there and watch. We can still play with one of our four "fingers" broken though, sometimes even two. Not sure how well it would compare on the Einstein field, though.

I'm gonna have to agree with you that 1124 does not belong in the winning alliance, but for other reasons. As much as I love my team and our robot, I don't think that we can achieve the same efficiency with our arm as a lot of the launcher robots do. The best of the best launcher robots always seem to outscore us, even if only by a little, but a few points here and there add up.
Your hybrid does make up for it though..
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Unread 06-26-2008, 04:03 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

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Originally Posted by lilstogi11 View Post
Your hybrid does make up for it though..
when it works (=
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Unread 06-26-2008, 05:02 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

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Originally Posted by Uberbots View Post
when it works (=
You should just take the complement...



Even when our hybrid works, though, I don't think it's enough to counteract 1114's hybrid. And theirs is definitely a bit more consistent than ours. So I still wouldn't put us on the alliance to beat them. We didn't make it too far on Einstein this year.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 06:39 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

Yes, they are definitely beatable, as it did happen on Einstein. Beating them twice, though, is very challenging. And if you were to custom-tailor an alliance just to beat those three, it probably wouldn't be able to stand up to other teams or perform as well in other matches.
The alliance I can see beating the SimChickenWranglers consists of 20, 330, and 2106.
The strategy is a total trackball defense one. I would have 20 grab an opponent ball right at the start of tele, incurring a 10 point penalty. 2106 would use its chain driven manipulator to surround an opponent ball and grip it just enough that it is still herded, not possessed, and therefore not incurring any penalties. Then they must stay in the corner holding the ball the whole match.
Meanwhile, 20 would be lapping like crazy with their bot while playing keep-away with the trackball, to try and overcome the penalty points. I can see them getting 7-9 laps in tele, so that's 14-18 points.
Lastly, 330 would need to use its ability to herd while possessing to control both of its trackballs, and double hurdle every chance it can get. I don't see the other alliance trying to play the same trackball possession game, but if they do only the ThunderChickens can really hold onto the ball without possessing it. 148 and 217's defense could be problematic.
So, after all is said and done, I think that a real aggressive defense would probably be the best way to win. If they can keep up in Hybrid (20 can get 5 lines, 330 3, 2106 2 maybe, and the alliance might get a ball down), and be within ten points, then it's definitely a viable strategy.

In any other match, this alliance would be very strong with the dual-hurdling of 20 and 330 combined with my proposed trackball defense for 2106.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 07:19 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

I will echo what Sean said, when these three are at their top level they are very hard to beat. If 217/148 had their hybrids at the level they were at earlier in the season i think it becomes an even bigger challenge. But if I were to pick three teams that would be able to do it, it would go like this 968/67/195. These three have the hybrid mode abilities to easily be tied with if not in the lead of the Simchicken Wranglers. Also 195 has the speed to race 1114/217 to any ball and prevent them from getting it (As seen in the Galileo Semis). RAWC and HOT have the scoring ability to keep up and the pick-up abilities to be able to deal with 148's defense. If the Robowranglers can pin a ball HOT can either get the ball out/switch to defense to defend 217. Obviously this discussion is moot if any of the teams on either alliance breaks down.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 08:14 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

In all seriousness, 1114, 217, 148 came close to losing a lot more than what most people seem to understand. If you notice they were outscored at least twice if not more times on their way onto Einstein but anytime they were out scored the opposing alliance received at enough penalties to negate the points lead. After seeing 254, 1717 and (???) almost beat them in Galileo I know they can be beat. 1114's biggest advantage is their autonomous consistency and the fact that it's illegal to try to block them. If this were like games of past years then it would be an entirely different issue in autonomous. At that point there are many strong hurdlers that could run with them. 254,968,16,67,233,2056, and 330 are the first to come to mind. I think in a straight up scoring match 330 and 254/968 and a quick lap runner could definitely give the current world champs a run for their money.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 08:53 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

Obviously I don't think any alliance is unbeatable, but thinking of a trio to bring them down is pretty tricky.

I definitely would have 968, they can hurdle pretty much just as well as 1114, but their hybrid is a bit lacking.

After that, the second hurdler is kind of up for grabs. Teams that I am thinking of include 195, 233, 254, and 330. 195 is a solid hurdler, one of my favorite bots this year, and had a pretty good hybrid from my memory. I still remember when my team was paired with them against 217 and won. 233 obviously a good hurdler too, but not quite as good. 254's capabilities are identical to 968's, but 968 seemed to drive better all year, and 254 had some troubles when defended(by 8 at SVR and 148 in Galileo finals). Finally, 330 can hurdle with the best for sure. If I had to pick one now, I would pick 330.

The third bot is extremely hard to pick, and it depends on the strategy. 8 is the most aggressive defender, and it had some success in trying to stop 1114. However, my picks so far can't match up with 1114's hybrid, so I would consider having 25 playing a nonhurdling role. Their hybrid is almost as good, knocking off 2 balls too, and they can hurdle if needed, but not that fast. Overall, if it weren't for hybrid, any team that can play a little bit of defense, make good laps, maybe knock off balls efficiently, and be a good partner would be a good pick for this, and that would include my team.

My alliance that MIGHT beat the SimChicken Wranglers:
968, 330, 25
It's kind of risky because 25 is not a defender, so unless they adjust, 1114 and 217 could score at will. 25 is my selection purely for their hybrid. For some crazy defense, replace 25 with 8, for laps, replace with 115. Of course, I don't know much about the lapping bots of this year, so my team isn't necessarily the one.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 09:39 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

they are good but no one is unbeatable
im sure that there are alot of teams who would have liked to get a chance to play them i know we would have liked to.
they are a great alliance though.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 10:20 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

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Originally Posted by thefro526 View Post
After seeing 254, 1717 and (???) almost beat them in Galileo I know they can be beat.
That would be 384, Sparky. I'm curious what you meant by the 1717, 254, 384 almost beating them. 1114/217/148 won in two matches, 114-58 and 150-58. It was a pretty handy beat down (no offense to the losing teams). 384 couldn't replicate the defense that gave 1114 and 217 trouble earlier, 217 was as mechanically sound as it was the entire eliminations, and the Poofs and Penguins couldn't find their rhythm. That was as convincing as I saw the Galileo #1 alliance the entire event.
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Unread 06-26-2008, 11:33 PM
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Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

Honestly,

With John, Paul, and Karthik (the Big 3 that come to mind... i know there are plenty of amazing scouts behind each one) on the same team, they could make cardboard boxes win matches... its just what they do...

However are they beatable... obviously with what we saw during the season is that they were not beatable (best of 3). However if you were to say is there ANY alliance out there that could beat them? The answer is yes. Here are just a few alliances i think could have beat them:

968, 67, 60
968 - 254 - 330
1124 - 1024 - 968

These are just a few... I have 968 on each of these, because i believe they have the BEST robot, but not the best drive team/strategy as proven by the Simbo-Chicken-Wranglers.

Anyways... can they be beat by Any alliance? Yes. Could they have been beaten by any alliance they faced? Yes. Were they beaten? No.
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