OCCRA
Go to Post The point of FIRST is to get a wide range of kids together and have them work as a TEAM. - Firewolf [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
View Poll Results: What should we do to the Build Season?
Nothing. Keep it just like it is. 194 53.59%
Remove the restriction, and allow continuous build from Kickoff to Championship. 142 39.23%
Mandate "tools down" after a certain day. No more practice bots. 26 7.18%
Voters: 362. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:10 PM
Unsung FIRST Hero
JVN JVN is offline
Lead Engineer & Coach
AKA: John Vielkind-Neun
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Greenville, Tx
Posts: 3,206
JVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond repute
POLL: Six Week Build Season

I think we've seen some fantastic discussion in the Six Week Build Season thread that Mr. Bill started: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=139373

I like data. I thought a poll as a supplement to that thread would be nice.

What do you think? Should we change the nature of the Build Season?
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:12 PM
Peyton Yeung's Avatar
Peyton Yeung Peyton Yeung is offline
45 Alumni
AKA: Peyton Yeung
FRC #0461 (Westside Boiler Invasion)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 913
Peyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond reputePeyton Yeung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

I'm not seeing a poll option.
__________________
461 Westside Boiler Invasion

2017 Tippy Quarter Finalist, St. Joe Semi finalist

2016 Tippy Quarter Finalist, Warren Finalist, IN State Semi Finalist,B^3 Double Finalist
2015 Indy Semi finalist, Purdue Quarter Finalist, IN State Quarter Finalist, CORI QF, R2OC Finalist, RAGE Winner
2014 Boilermaker Semi finalist, Crossroads Quarter Finalist, & CAGE Quarter Finalist
45 Technokats
2013 Boilermaker Quarter finalist
2012 CAGE Semi finalist & Queen City Champion
2011 CAGE Quarter finalist & Midwest Semi finalist
2010 CAGE Quarter finalist, Boilermaker Champion, & Washington DC Quarter Finalist
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:16 PM
techhelpbb's Avatar
techhelpbb techhelpbb is offline
Registered User
FRC #0011 (MORT - Team 11)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,818
techhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

You should create an option for 'Study the problem further'.

Cause my vote for 'Tools down after a certain date' ignores that I'd still like teams to have FRC style robots of some sort to learn with year round.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:18 PM
AGPapa's Avatar
AGPapa AGPapa is offline
Registered User
AKA: Antonio Papa
FRC #5895
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Robbinsville, NJ
Posts: 365
AGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond reputeAGPapa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

I voted "keep it just like it is" but I'd support having more unbag time (~6hrs every week) as was suggested here.
__________________
Team 2590 Student [2011-2014]
Team 5684 Mentor [2015]
Team 5895 Mentor [2016-]

Last edited by AGPapa : 11-19-2015 at 02:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:21 PM
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 6,401
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

I wonder how representative this poll could be among all teams? My guess is that teams that build a practice bot now will be over represented...just because the teams that put in a lot of extra time doing stuff like that, also happen to put in extra time on CD.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:31 PM
EricLeifermann's Avatar
EricLeifermann EricLeifermann is offline
Pick and Place FTW
FRC #2826 (Wave Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,304
EricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond reputeEricLeifermann has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

I put it at least 40+ hours a week kickoff through championships, probably still will if bag day was to be taken away.

The true benefit I see to getting rid of bag/pause build day is the cost savings to my team. We will no longer need to build 2 robots, HUGE cost savings to a team with the resources we have, our sponsors would definitely love us more as we wouldn't be begging as much for quick turn around and such as well.

The added benefit should be an increase in competitiveness as now every team will have a practice robot. A well driven "lower-tier" robot will beat a poorly driven "upper-tier" robot ever single time. I cannot count how many times I have seen this posted in these forums "the thing that pushed our team over the edge was when we started building a practice bot"

There are lots of things that go into the elite teams being elite but the single greatest thing that those teams have is stick time. You look at the teams that are on Einstein nearly every year and the one thing they will all have in common is at least 3X more drive time than other teams.
__________________
2002-2005 Appleton East High School: Team 93
2005-2011 Michigan Technological University: Team 857
2012-Present Wave Robotics Team 2826



Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:34 PM
EricDrost's Avatar
EricDrost EricDrost is offline
Registered User
FRC #1923 (The MidKnight Inventors)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 318
EricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

The third option is not enforceable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGPapa View Post
I voted "keep it just like it is" but I'd support having more unbag time (~6hrs every week) as was suggested here.
I voted remove all restrictions, but giving 6hr/week unbag would be a good compromise. Especially so for those poor regional teams who get NO unbag time.
__________________
MORT Team 11: 2008 - 2015
MKI Team 1923: 2015 - Present
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:36 PM
Unsung FIRST Hero
JVN JVN is offline
Lead Engineer & Coach
AKA: John Vielkind-Neun
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Greenville, Tx
Posts: 3,206
JVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricDrost View Post
The third option is not enforceable.
The third option is just as enforceable as many other rules we have within this competition. There are myriad ways to cheat, but the ethos of the competition keep people in bounds.

FRC relies on the honor system already.
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:41 PM
KrazyCarl92's Avatar
KrazyCarl92 KrazyCarl92 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Carl Springli
FRC #0020 (The Rocketeers)(EWCP)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Posts: 556
KrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGPapa View Post
I voted "keep it just like it is" but I'd support having more unbag time (~6hrs every week) as was suggested here.
If this were to be the case, we could keep the playing field level for teams who have to ship their robots to competitions by allowing them to displace their unbag hours from the weeks their robot will be shipping to earlier (or later) weeks in the season.
__________________
[2017-present] FRC 0020 - The Rocketeers
[2016] FRC 5811 - BONDS Robotics
[2010-2015] FRC 0020 - The Rocketeers
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:52 PM
GreyingJay GreyingJay is offline
we'll fix it in the pit
FRC #2706 (Merge Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,257
GreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

No fourth option "Increase build season from 6 weeks to 8 weeks"?
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:57 PM
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 7,065
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyingJay View Post
No fourth option "Increase build season from 6 weeks to 8 weeks"?
That isn't an option. You cannot shift the competition season to the right 2 weeks and you cannot shift kickoff to the left 2 weeks.
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 02:58 PM
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Friends of Waialua Robotics, Inc.
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,557
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyingJay View Post
No fourth option "Increase build season from 6 weeks to 8 weeks"?
If build season doesnt move back to Winter Break in December, then your suggestion might as well be part of the getting rid of the 6 week build season.
According to the schedule, Week 1/2 and Week 1 events would be playing already.
__________________

2018 Canadian Rockies Regional Champions, #1 seed
2018 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award
2018 Festival de Robotique-Montreal Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2017 World Championship Woodie Flowers Award Winner
2017 World Championship Darwin Division Finalist Award
2017 Greater Pittsburgh Regional Champions, #1 seed, Safety Award, Entrepreneurship Award
2017 Palmetto Regional Champions, #2 seed, Safety Award
2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 03:03 PM
EricDrost's Avatar
EricDrost EricDrost is offline
Registered User
FRC #1923 (The MidKnight Inventors)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 318
EricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond reputeEricDrost has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVN View Post
The third option is just as enforceable as many other rules we have within this competition. There are myriad ways to cheat, but the ethos of the competition keep people in bounds.

FRC relies on the honor system already.
Sure, but it creates a huge gray area.

Is CAD part of "tools down"? Is it illegal to design a COTS mechanism to bring to an event to assemble there?

What about driver practice? I think it's reasonable to assume that practicing driving base with an old robot is okay, but what about modifying your 2008 mechanism to practice operating your 2014 robot?

Unless you deincentivize winning (#2Champz), teams are going to toe the line as closely as they can, which would be against the spirit of creating a rule like this.


Aside from the gray area, this also removes what I think is one of the best teaching opportunities for teams (which, John, I'm sure you'll agree with). Practice robots and unbag are one of the best times to learn from your mistakes and iterate.
__________________
MORT Team 11: 2008 - 2015
MKI Team 1923: 2015 - Present
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 03:11 PM
techhelpbb's Avatar
techhelpbb techhelpbb is offline
Registered User
FRC #0011 (MORT - Team 11)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,818
techhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359 View Post
If build season doesnt move back to Winter Break in December, then your suggestion might as well be part of the getting rid of the 6 week build season.
According to the schedule, Week 1/2 and Week 1 events would be playing already.
Move both ways. A week back into December and delay the competitions by 1 week.

Is there some reason we can't delay the competitions at all?
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-19-2015, 03:13 PM
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 7,065
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Re: POLL: Six Week Build Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by techhelpbb View Post
Move both ways. A week back into December and delay the competitions by 1 week.

Is there some reason we can't delay the competitions at all?
Neither of those proposals is a good solution.

FIRST has openly stated they will not expand into May, because AP testing (and finals for some schools).

They are never going to move left into December, because absolutely nothing gets done the last 1-2 weeks of December in the professional world. Tons of suppliers are closed. People are on vacation. If they're not on vacation, they want to be with their families. This is a total nonstarter.
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi