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  #166   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-23-2012, 05:45 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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Originally Posted by Siri View Post
Except that most of the teams now cannot make it interesting or fun to watch. (Remember, there are 2,343 teams in FRC this year...how many autonomous modes make you go "wow"?)

Most teams struggle with the basics now--just look at the Hybrid OPRs. FRC is primarily teleop because autonomous--especially fully autonomous--programming at this level just doesn't look as interesting or work as well. FLL isn't an interactive head-to-head sport; FRC is (I think because, well, it's high school).


I'd appreciate more ways to score as well, though I think the reason FRC has shied away from it is to make the games more spectator-friendly. How many sports have 3-4 ways to score?
Well, football does. It's on its own island in that respect, however.
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Unread 05-23-2012, 06:56 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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Originally Posted by sebflippers View Post
As a programmer I would love to see more autonomous time next game. Maybe 30 seconds?
I'd like to see a longer autonomous period as well. The longer the autonomous time is, the more variables there are that need to be accounted for, which would help programmers learn about some of the challenges faced in "real-world" situations like automated assembly lines.
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Unread 06-05-2012, 02:21 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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Originally Posted by Siri View Post
FLL isn't an interactive head-to-head sport; FRC is (I think because, well, it's high school).
FRC is a head to head competition not so much because it's for highschool, as that all the robots are in one large field (like most team oriented sports) and are thus able to interfere/aid one another. It would be drastically more difficult (many programmers already struggle with the current autonomous) if the whole FRC game was autonomous.

FLL can work easily as a (virtually) autonomous competition since the robots can only ever interact in one mission/task, which is either a race to activate/collect an object, or which will give both teams points. The robots are in otherwise entirely isolated fields.
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Unread 06-05-2012, 05:46 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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Originally Posted by jon-s View Post
FRC is a head to head competition not so much because it's for highschool, as that all the robots are in one large field (like most team oriented sports) and are thus able to interfere/aid one another. It would be drastically more difficult (many programmers already struggle with the current autonomous) if the whole FRC game was autonomous.

FLL can work easily as a (virtually) autonomous competition since the robots can only ever interact in one mission/task, which is either a race to activate/collect an object, or which will give both teams points. The robots are in otherwise entirely isolated fields.
Of course, yes. At the manifest level, (virtual) autonomous works because FLL robots compete individually, whereas FRC work many at once. But can't be the root cause--FIRST themselves decided those structures.

I suspect (with no evidence besides knowing elementary & high school students) that the main reason FIRST made the decision to have multiple FRC robots on one large field is because, well, high schoolers like head-to-head sports. (The direct competition adding qualities seen in most of their...competing...interests in a way most elementary schoolers are not yet as motivated towards.) And as we've agreed, programming at this level just doesn't work as well--for anyone, but certainly for high schoolers.

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Originally Posted by Ekcrbe View Post
Well, football does. It's on its own island in that respect, however.
Oh Ok. I thought it was like two. (The running thing and the kicking thing, yeah?) Maybe that sort of supports FIRST simplifying its rules for quasi-spectators. Lucky football doesn't have to rely on its own quasi-spectators like me!
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Unread 06-05-2012, 06:05 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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Originally Posted by Siri View Post
Oh Ok. I thought it was like two. (The running thing and the kicking thing, yeah?) Maybe that sort of supports FIRST simplifying its rules for quasi-spectators. Lucky football doesn't have to rely on its own quasi-spectators like me!
Actually...

-You can get the football into your opponent's end zone (6 points).
--You can then either kick it through the uprights for one point or put it in the end zone again (1 and 2 points respectively).
-You can kick a field goal (3 points).
-You can bring your opponents down in their end zone with the football after they've crossed the plane of the goal line going towards the field (or they send the ball out the back of the end zone), also known as a safety (2 points+ possession of the ball).

That's 5 ways to score, two of which are repeats of others for fewer points under certain circumstances.


On to other things like separated fields... Not gonna happen. I've seen how it looks when FRC-sized robots are competing FLL style, admittedly for a longer match on a harder task. Spectator-friendly, not so much (that's where you need TV-type coverage to fill in gaps or what have you).
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Unread 06-07-2012, 04:57 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Okay so from looking at past games and history here is what I assume the 2013 game will be like.

Stacking will be involved and same with hanging. When I say hanging, I don't mean like 2010, I mean like 2004 when you have to hang off a bar like that.

I also image getting around the field quickly will be essential for a successful robot.

I have a feeling there will be some height restriction. Basically I'm imagine a mixture of 2010, 2003, and 2004. 2010 with something like the tunnel, 2003 with the stacking, and 2004 with the high-bar. Basically stacking will be hard with an obstacle about 3-4 feet tall you have to drive under. Designing a stacking robot with hanging capabilities and a height restriction/obstacle will prove difficult, but fun!

Thoughts?
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Unread 06-07-2012, 05:52 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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Originally Posted by KevinGoneNuts View Post
I have a feeling there will be some height restriction. Basically I'm imagine a mixture of 2010, 2003, and 2004. 2010 with something like the tunnel, 2003 with the stacking, and 2004 with the high-bar. Basically stacking will be hard with an obstacle about 3-4 feet tall you have to drive under. Designing a stacking robot with hanging capabilities and a height restriction/obstacle will prove difficult, but fun!

Thoughts?
You mean like 2000, but with stacking objects instead of filling troughs? That could be highly entertaining. And in informal CD polling, 2000 is one of the best-liked games, right up there with 2004, 2006, and 2010 (and possibly 2012).
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Unread 06-08-2012, 01:08 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

I have a feeling their going to use crates in the 2013 game, and maybe inner tubes, because 2010 was using soccer balls, then 2011 was inner tubes, and this year was basketballs, so it kind of looks like a pattern. But I would like to see them do something different from the past games, well they do but its either balls or inner tubes, I hope they use crates though.
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Unread 06-08-2012, 09:56 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

I would like to see something similar to 2005 where the robots were disabled when the human player loaded the robot. However I would also like to see some in-game importance to the human player that directly or indirectly effects the store (i.e. 2012/2011), but not game changing (i.e. 2009/2004), or menial (i.e. 2010).
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Unread 06-09-2012, 05:37 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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Originally Posted by Gregor01 View Post
I would like to see something similar to 2005 where the robots were disabled when the human player loaded the robot. However I would also like to see some in-game importance to the human player that directly or indirectly effects the store (i.e. 2012/2011), but not game changing (i.e. 2009/2004), or menial (i.e. 2010).
2003's Human Player mode would fit it quite well, I think.

For those that don't know that game, the HP's actually played on the field. That's right, the first 15 seconds of each match were taken up by the 4 HPs each running 4 bins, marked with retro-reflective tape in addition to normal markings, onto the field, and then going back through the gates and standing on pressure pads. When all 4 were on the pads and the gates closed, the normal 2:15 match started, and the HPs retreated behind the glass with their drive teams. Then the robots started targeting the stacks... What do you expect from a game called "Stack Attack"?
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Unread 06-09-2012, 06:01 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

I still thnk water game - 20 feet of pool noodle is enough to float a 120 pound robot.....so they are bumpers on the land portion and floats on the water portion.
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Unread 06-09-2012, 06:46 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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I still thnk water game - 20 feet of pool noodle is enough to float a 120 pound robot.....so they are bumpers on the land portion and floats on the water portion.
oh please.
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What are nationals? Sounds like a fun American party, can we Canadians come?
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Unread 06-09-2012, 08:54 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

I do not believe we will have to have our robots hang off a bar, as that was the goal in 2010, and the rookies (who were Freshman) in 2010 will now be Seniors and still on teams. From my understanding, FIRST usually only reuses some (of the major) elements at least every 4 years, so that students are not used to challenge.

Case in Point: use of inner tubes in 2007, use of inner tubes in 2011 when all students from that game were gone.
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Unread 06-10-2012, 12:15 AM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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Originally Posted by sithmonkey13 View Post
I do not believe we will have to have our robots hang off a bar, as that was the goal in 2010, and the rookies (who were Freshman) in 2010 will now be Seniors and still on teams. From my understanding, FIRST usually only reuses some (of the major) elements at least every 4 years, so that students are not used to challenge.

Case in Point: use of inner tubes in 2007, use of inner tubes in 2011 when all students from that game were gone.
2006 and 2009 were very similar in terms of robot specs. Intake with (maybe a hopper and) a shooter.
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What are nationals? Sounds like a fun American party, can we Canadians come?
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Unread 06-10-2012, 05:08 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

I'd like to see something original. Maybe large scales and various weights around the arena. As the weights picked up by the Bots and carried to the scales it rises a water level in a tube or something like that.
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