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Go to Post I think the best driver team of the post season would be Mike Wade and Pete Baltzell- because they have been driving that NASA field all over the Northeast so all of us can play.Thanks guys!! - Wayne C. [more]
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  #46   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-18-2017, 12:39 AM
tindleroot tindleroot is offline
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Re: The 4 Team Alliance

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Originally Posted by NShep98 View Post
I think, and others may have stated this as well, that it would possibly be nice at select DCMPs that have both enough teams and enough CMP qualifying slots to make it feasible. For example, IIRC New England DCMP sends over half its participants, so one extra team on the winning alliance wouldn't be such a bad thing.
I think this effect could be duplicated on regionals based on size, too. District events are generally small (with DCMP varying based on district size) but regionals similarly have extreme variance. I believe this year's smallest regional had 27 teams with the largest (several) at 60. At those largest regionals especially (every Minnesota event and several others) it's hard for a lot of teams to get picked simply because there are so many teams total. I wouldn't be opposed to FIRST implementing fourth round picks at large events (say, 50+ teams). However, the result would be a further unbalanced system (adding event size on top of district vs regional in terms of unbalance), so FIRST would really need to have a good plan.

However, I see some good benefits this could bring, namely:

Preventing underrepresentation from regions with a high team to event ratio
Giving more teams a chance to play in playoffs when they only go to one regional a season
Allowing alliances to better strategize especially compared to the current backup provision
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Unread 05-19-2017, 12:47 AM
tcjinaz tcjinaz is offline
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Re: The 4 Team Alliance

"They also serve who stand and wait"
John Milton

I'm all for four team alliances. More teams get to play on Saturday afternoon, and Saturday at all at Champs. Those experiences are why we do this.

Make it so that any event will accept at least 32 teams. If only 30 show, then the top end gets the advantage of "spares." Well, they're probably the ones that can totally rebuild a robot at the event, too. Not a lot of difference.

In 2016 we were the Cinderella 24th pick at AZ West. Bad scouting by the other seven alliances (see the #6 offer of their third slot to a team with a broken robot) put us with #1 (987 & 2468, Thank You Very Much!). Four team alliances make for more Cinderellas, and 33% more engagement of people who worked hard to be there.
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Unread 05-19-2017, 08:16 AM
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Re: The 4 Team Alliance

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Originally Posted by SpaceBiz View Post
We were the fourth pick on the tesla winning alliance. Of the 13 matches our alliance played, we played zero. I would have loved to coach a match in the division bracket or on einstein my senior year, and genuinely believe we were good enough to be picked in the third round. But the alliance captain gets to chose who plays.
Just wanted to pedantically point out that you could have served as a drive coach for the match even if your team wasn't out there. Alliances are allowed 1 extra drive team member behind the glass for Championship eliminations (or at least they were 2014-2016), which many teams choose to use for an extra drive coach to coordinate between the drive teams. This is one of the coolest aspects of the Championship eliminations in my opinion.

I've also seen it used to grant an additional human player behind the glass.
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Unread 05-19-2017, 10:31 PM
nobrakes8 nobrakes8 is offline
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Re: The 4 Team Alliance

At district championships I think it could make sense since the capability of teams there seem pretty high. PNW is the only district I scouted before championship this season and I think that district was more competitive than some championship divisions (I assume same is true for MAR, NE, etc..) so a fourth team would have probably been fine there.

I think regionals are fine staying at 3 teams; even at large ones because the drop off in capabilities is so drastic. Scouting is already hard enough finalizing the order of your 15th and 24th choice on a pick list as it is.

I'm also worried that at regionals cheesecaking would start getting carried away. Realistically, if you're top team you'll have 3-4 hours to totally tear down and rebuild your second or third pick in preparation for the finals or maybe even a third semi finals match. I'm OK with consensual cheesecake but I'm worried it would start getting carried away. We found a team of kids we liked at Alamo; but their robot was awful (it was fast but that was about it). If we had 2 hours; that team would have become a 4206-II and roll out for the first time during the finals match as a totally new robot. I don't know if that's really a good thing.
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