OCCRA
Go to Post And then I learned how to use the lathe...long story short, I ditched my plans to become a music major and became an engineering student. - Karibou [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Control System
CD-Media  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-23-2005, 07:06 PM
joe_balint joe_balint is offline
Registered User
FRC #3324 (Metrobots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 24
joe_balint is an unknown quantity at this point
Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

Some of my controls guys have been hinting that there is an RF tether out there somewhere. I've been searching the forums for about 25 minutes and the closest I got was an old link to team696 selling 25ft and 50ft tether cables for the old pre2004 control systems. Does anyone have any more info on a true wireless-RF tether for the current IFI controllers? If so, I would appreciate the link or any contact info. Thanks. -Joe
__________________
Engineer
joe.balint@gmail.com
http://www.OhioValleyTesting.com/
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan." -Clausewitz 1832
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-23-2005, 07:07 PM
Tom Bottiglieri Tom Bottiglieri is offline
Registered User
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,303
Tom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

Whats the point?
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-23-2005, 07:22 PM
jgannon's Avatar
jgannon jgannon is offline
I ᐸ3 Robots
AKA: Joey Gannon
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,467
jgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

How would this differ from just hooking up an IFI radio to the Radio port?
__________________
Team 1743 - The Short Circuits
2010 Pittsburgh Excellence in Design & Team Spirit Awards
2009 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 222 and 1218)
2007 Pittsburgh Website Award
2006 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 395 and 1038)
2006 Pittsburgh Rookie Inspiration & Highest Rookie Seed

Team 1388 - Eagle Robotics
2005 Sacramento Engineering Inspiration
2004 Curie Division Champions (thanks to 1038 and 175)
2004 Sacramento Rookie All-Star

_
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-23-2005, 07:25 PM
Sscamatt's Avatar
Sscamatt Sscamatt is offline
Registered User
AKA: Matt Syska
FRC #0195 (Cyber Knights)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 265
Sscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to Sscamatt
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

Maybe you could beef it up to like 2.4Ghz and use it at competition.
__________________
2006 Championship Finalist, Thanks 25 + 968!
2006 Newton Division Winner
2006 International Innovation In Control Award
2006 Radio Shack Innovation in Control Award, UTC Regional

RIT Class of 2011
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-23-2005, 07:47 PM
steven114 steven114 is offline
Programming Wizard and Team Captain
AKA: Steven Schlansker
FRC #0114 (Eaglestrike)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Altos, CA
Posts: 335
steven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via AIM to steven114
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

I would much rather use it as a wireless programmer
__________________
Shift to the left, shift to the right!
Pop up, push down, byte, byte, byte!
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-23-2005, 07:50 PM
Sscamatt's Avatar
Sscamatt Sscamatt is offline
Registered User
AKA: Matt Syska
FRC #0195 (Cyber Knights)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 265
Sscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud ofSscamatt has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to Sscamatt
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

You can do it with bluetooth:
http://www.codebluecommunications.co...Generation.htm

Expensive though, ~$300
__________________
2006 Championship Finalist, Thanks 25 + 968!
2006 Newton Division Winner
2006 International Innovation In Control Award
2006 Radio Shack Innovation in Control Award, UTC Regional

RIT Class of 2011
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-23-2005, 07:56 PM
Unsung FIRST Hero
Mike Betts Mike Betts is offline
Electrical Engineer
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: Homosassa, FL
Posts: 1,442
Mike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_balint
Some of my controls guys have been hinting that there is an RF tether out there somewhere. I've been searching the forums for about 25 minutes and the closest I got was an old link to team696 selling 25ft and 50ft tether cables for the old pre2004 control systems. Does anyone have any more info on a true wireless-RF tether for the current IFI controllers? If so, I would appreciate the link or any contact info. Thanks. -Joe
The thread you are looking for is http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=31931

However, (1) you can not program the robot with a SMiRF and, more importantly, (2) use of any RF transmitter on the robot or OI during competitions is illegal under this year's rules.

We did purchase a SMiRF and we are using it for code development. It's cool! However, we will not be bringing same to our competitions.
__________________
Mike Betts

Alumnus, Team 3518, Panthrobots, 2011
Alumnus, Team 177, Bobcat Robotics, 1995 - 2010
LRI, Connecticut Regional, 2007-2010
LRI, WPI Regional, 2009 - 2010
RI, South Florida Regional, 2012 - 2013

As easy as 355/113...
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-23-2005, 10:51 PM
Dez Dez is offline
54... What a good number!
AKA: Michael Dessingue
no team
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Capital Region, NY
Posts: 1,809
Dez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond reputeDez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

-All programming at competitions must be done via a serial cable from your computer to the RC.

-While in the pits there is no wireless communication allowed, that includes everything from your robot having to be on tether to test and the use of walkie talkie radios being "banned".

There are NO exceptions for these rules and must be followed at all times.
__________________
Formerly dez250.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-23-2005, 11:15 PM
cdawzrd's Avatar
cdawzrd cdawzrd is offline
Vice-President of Caffine
AKA: Jonathan
#0619 (CA Robotics)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 63
cdawzrd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to cdawzrd
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

At one point, IFI was selling wireless program/debug modems... i dunno if you could tether with them, but you could program remotely. They seem to have discontinued them.
__________________
Cdawzrd
>> www.cdawzrd.com <<
>> www.carobotics.org <<
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-24-2005, 12:04 AM
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
Software Engineer
VRC #0111 (Wildstang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: North Barrington, IL
Posts: 1,365
Dave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdawzrd
At one point, IFI was selling wireless program/debug modems... i dunno if you could tether with them, but you could program remotely.
Those could only be used to program the old PBASIC-based robot controllers. The new C-based RCs require a baud rate of 115200 bps for programming which the Stamper radios are not capable of (likely the reason why IFI stopped selling them).
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-24-2005, 12:24 AM
russell's Avatar
russell russell is offline
Registered User
#1430 (WRONG)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Anchorage AK
Posts: 402
russell is a name known to allrussell is a name known to allrussell is a name known to allrussell is a name known to allrussell is a name known to allrussell is a name known to all
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

I have been thinking about a way that one could reprogram the robot remotely using the provided radio modems. You could even do it in competition I think, though it would be so incredibly slow that there is no way you could download a whole program during one match. Basically, there is a way to use the radio modem to actually send bytes to the RC isnt there? If so you write your own dashboard type interface, which sends the program one byte at a time to the RC, which in turn uses the TTL port to give it to an external programming thingy. Then when the programming thingy has the whole program it goes and downloads it to the RC. I havent looked into what this programing thingy would have to be, but I know that one can get programmers for PIC microcontrollers which you plug into your serial port, and if you were to use the serial output ability of a PIC to drive the programmer, which in turn programmed the RC then you could do it. Like I say it would be incredibly slow. The other way would be to simply have an onboard computer which retrieves the user bytes from the RC then runs a modified ifi loader to download the program. Is it legal to put say an old 386 on our robot, and only use the RC for IO, and do all of the actual processing on the 386? If so how would we do the cost accounting stuff, as I dont think they exactly make them any more?
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-24-2005, 12:29 AM
steven114 steven114 is offline
Programming Wizard and Team Captain
AKA: Steven Schlansker
FRC #0114 (Eaglestrike)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Altos, CA
Posts: 335
steven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via AIM to steven114
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

Whether you can find rules allowing it or not, the benefits of reprogramming the robot in the middle of the match seem negligible. Much more useful would to be able to not have to hook the laptop up to the robot to program it...
__________________
Shift to the left, shift to the right!
Pop up, push down, byte, byte, byte!
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-24-2005, 12:31 AM
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 18th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,841
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

We've still got the 25' cables for $12 shipped priority. Add $2 for a small gender changer to get a female-female cable, in essence. Or you can use just the 25' M-F cable as an extension to your red F-F cable.

Upon request, we can get 50' M-F cables and 10' F-F cables. On the 50 footers, I am not sure about signal loss over the length. I know with a BASIC stamp it doesn't like to load code over a cable that long, but I haven't tried it with the Pic controllers. I am certain the 25' will not cause any problems in programming or tether on any controller.

http://team696.org/forsale.html
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-24-2005, 12:52 AM
Unsung FIRST Hero
Mike Betts Mike Betts is offline
Electrical Engineer
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: Homosassa, FL
Posts: 1,442
Mike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

Quote:
Originally Posted by russell
I have been thinking about a way that one could reprogram the robot remotely using the provided radio modems. You could even do it in competition I think,...
What part of R53 do you not understand? Wireless communications to or from the robot is illegal.
__________________
Mike Betts

Alumnus, Team 3518, Panthrobots, 2011
Alumnus, Team 177, Bobcat Robotics, 1995 - 2010
LRI, Connecticut Regional, 2007-2010
LRI, WPI Regional, 2009 - 2010
RI, South Florida Regional, 2012 - 2013

As easy as 355/113...
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-24-2005, 01:02 AM
Anthony Kesich's Avatar
Anthony Kesich Anthony Kesich is offline
Programmer Turned Engineer
AKA: SonKenshin
#1097 (Site 3 Engineernig)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 186
Anthony Kesich has a spectacular aura aboutAnthony Kesich has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Anthony Kesich
Re: Rumor or Real: RF Tether product

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven114
Whether you can find rules allowing it or not, the benefits of reprogramming the robot in the middle of the match seem negligible. Much more useful would to be able to not have to hook the laptop up to the robot to program it...
Our team has been looking at this. We went out and purchased a low profile motherboard with a PII on it and a flash card reader. We then bought a one gig flash card. We're gonna put this setup on the robot if we have the available weight (which it looks like we will this year). At the very least, we are going to use it for blackboxing and programming.

We would have a wireless card on it and run XP. This way we could run remote desktop, trasnfer over the code, and program through an Ad-Hoc network. Granted we would remove the wireless card before matches, but it would be very useful for testing code and quick changes to programming.

Even if the wireless wouldnt be allowed in the Pits (though i dont see how WiFi would interfere) it is still going to be useful for blackboxing and programming during build season.

-Tony K
__________________
C is screwing up my English--I'm ending all my sentences in semi-colons;

Horray for most things! -George Carlin

"Sure, I'll play rugby. Besides, I have a lot of experience running from really big guys who want to cream me." -Me, Freshman year
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Name the product or service or TV Show game. Elgin Clock Games/Trivia 3 05-05-2004 10:23 PM
Tether Cable crap-o-la KWachowski27 Programming 5 01-17-2004 07:18 PM
Entanglement at Bash Rick Rules/Strategy 31 11-06-2002 09:30 PM
tether after a match archiver General Forum 9 06-24-2002 02:09 AM
Need pinout for tether adaptor archiver General Forum 4 06-23-2002 09:55 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi