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Unread 05-09-2018, 03:58 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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Originally Posted by nick4130 View Post
Let human players flow between the two portals. It sucks when you only can have one human player over there and there stuck on the wrong side.
I think this change would be great. It would also let human players bring cubes between portals which fixes the oddity of having an uneven amount of cubes distributed between each portal and potentially help out those switch killers who run out of cubes on the portal near the opposing switch.
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Unread 05-09-2018, 04:11 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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Originally Posted by Kevin Sheridan View Post
I think this change would be great. It would also let human players bring cubes between portals which fixes the oddity of having an uneven amount of cubes distributed between each portal and potentially help out those switch killers who run out of cubes on the portal near the opposing switch.
I agree! I also don't think that this would be a huge change to the game like the committee is trying to avoid.
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Unread 05-09-2018, 04:45 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

Along the "heavier cubes" line, it would be interesting if a cube fed into the exchange could have weight added to it by the HP and then delivered back to the field, kinda like super cells in 2009.
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Unread 05-09-2018, 05:42 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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Originally Posted by BordomBeThyName View Post
Along the "heavier cubes" line, it would be interesting if a cube fed into the exchange could have weight added to it by the HP and then delivered back to the field, kinda like super cells in 2009.
This instead of force powerup
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Unread 05-09-2018, 10:15 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

I think if there is swap they should make the swap be only one power up that can be only used once by one alliance or another. So if red uses it it can't be used by blue then.
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Unread 05-09-2018, 10:22 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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During alliance selections, if a team representative Graciously Accepts, that alliance carries a yellow card with them through playoffs.
If two alliance members Graciously Accept on the same alliance, does that mean they go into their first playoff match down 0-1?

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Auto RP requires a cube in the switch AND scale
Believe it or not, a team actually thought that putting a cube in the Scale and getting three AutoRuns was a ranking point. They were rather disappointed when it was pointed out that the requirement was to put it in the Switch, after they'd gotten the Scale but not the Switch.

I'd go with "Or" instead of "and" myself, if this weren't IRI we're talking about.
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Unread 05-09-2018, 11:06 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

- Opposing Switch Scoring - the opposing alliance may score for controlling the opposing switch as well.

- Boost and Force Power ups - in place for 20 seconds each

- Null zone fouls - 25 points when the violated bot holds a cube, 5 points otherwise.

- Exchange Zone fouls - moving to the Portal automatically provides sufficient clearance to negate a blocking foul

- Launching - If a robot is in contact with any thing that is in contact with the Switch (e.g., a cube, another robot), the robot may place the cube in the Switch with no penalty.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 08:31 AM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

I honestly see no way to properly balancing (pun intended) the use of weighted cubes without rendering them useless without straight up giving a loosing alliance a weighted cube (which just the thought of that puts a bad taste in my mouth.)

You could find a way to earn it, but then a winning alliance could just use it to snowball. And if both alliances straight up have access to it there's no point, since they would simply balance each other out afterall making their existence have no point other than precise placement which everyone would do since it's mostly high-tier teams coming to IRI.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 08:39 AM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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Originally Posted by Darre_Bonfire View Post
I honestly see no way to properly balancing (pun intended) the use of weighted cubes without rendering them useless without straight up giving a loosing alliance a weighted cube (which just the thought of that puts a bad taste in my mouth.)

You could find a way to earn it, but then a winning alliance could just use it to snowball. And if both alliances straight up have access to it there's no point, since they would simply balance each other out afterall making their existence have no point other than precise placement which everyone would do since it's mostly high-tier teams coming to IRI.
4 cubes through the exchange = 1 powerup weighted cube at 3x weight.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 08:48 AM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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Originally Posted by Darre_Bonfire View Post
I honestly see no way to properly balancing (pun intended) the use of weighted cubes without rendering them useless without straight up giving a loosing alliance a weighted cube (which just the thought of that puts a bad taste in my mouth.)

You could find a way to earn it, but then a winning alliance could just use it to snowball. And if both alliances straight up have access to it there's no point, since they would simply balance each other out afterall making their existence have no point other than precise placement which everyone would do since it's mostly high-tier teams coming to IRI.
Someone proposed putting it in the center of the power cube pile. This is a great option because it forces an alliance to mine for it, push their pile cubes out of the protected zone, or make longer cycle trips if they want the first cubes on the scale. In the intervening time the other alliance can make shorter cycles with the platform zone cubes.

Do you got for the initial shorter cycles to get an early advantage? Or do you make longer cycles or mine the power cube pile harder, ignoring the scale, and hope you can catch up? Or do you say 'screw it' and put the weighted cube on your switch to protect from a portal nuke so you can load the exchange fully? Or do you send it down-field to the other switch to avoid the 'switch overflow' and force the other alliance to load more cubes in their switch? Do you play yours first or wait to counter the other alliance's companion cube?

I think it adds a great new twist.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 08:54 AM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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Originally Posted by JamesCH95 View Post
Someone proposed putting it in the center of the power cube pile. This is a great option because it forces an alliance to mine for it, push their pile cubes out of the protected zone, or make longer cycle trips if they want the first cubes on the scale. In the intervening time the other alliance can make shorter cycles with the platform zone cubes.

Do you got for the initial shorter cycles to get an early advantage? Or do you make longer cycles or mine the power cube pile harder, ignoring the scale, and hope you can catch up? Or do you say 'screw it' and put the weighted cube on your switch to protect from a portal nuke so you can load the exchange fully? Or do you send it down-field to the other switch to avoid the 'switch overflow' and force the other alliance to load more cubes in their switch? Do you play yours first or wait to counter the other alliance's companion cube?

I think it adds a great new twist.
I didn't elaborate when I suggested it, but yes, that was my thinking exactly. From what I observed at higher levels of play, the Cube Zone cubes weren't always being used for Exchange cycles. Many scale bots came back for them, or they were used to protect the home switch. By sticking a heavy cube in the middle of the pile, it forces the alliance to really think through the whole match, and cube allocation. A team with an intention for every cube will be rewarded.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 01:27 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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2) Anyone that drops wings or lifters before endgame can use them as long as no alliance partner starts climbing on before T=15. Right now, attempting to use them at all is a red card, which feels a little strong.
I did not like how this rule was interpreted. G05 states that extending beyond the 16 in before the end game and/or outside the platform zone should be a foul and only become a red card if it is strategic. The rule interpretation states that if you extend early and then use the mechanism to climb at the end, then that was strategic. In all the cases I witnessed, the platforms were not dropped early to gain a strategic advantage. Either something broke or someone pushed the wrong button. In most cases the robot then proceeded to go to the platform to avoid that extension becoming strategic (such as aiding in blocking or drawing fouls). It seems like the penalty associated with the robot needing to retreat to the platform early more than cancelled out any strategic possible strategic advantage. I agree that the team should be allowed to use the device to conduct a double climb or triple climb without further penalty. I like the idea of limiting the time point where robots can climb onto the device, but T=15 seems a bit extreme. Most devices took less than a second to deploy, so a 5 second penalty for when your partner(s) can climb on seems rational (T=25).

The other rule where the interpretation went too far in my opinion was the launching rule. I would have liked it if a launch was defined by a positive vertical velocity component when the cube left the robot or if the horizontal velocity of the cube is high enough to result in the cube travelling more than 3 feet before hitting the ground. Running your intake backward to push the cube out should not be considered launching. Shooting the power cubes along the ground should also not be considered launching (even though rule G22 talks about "kicking" them "across the floor"). You had to push the cubes across the floor some small distance to put them into the exchange which was never called for launching. But if you shot the cube across the floor in other places on the field you could be called. I think making this interpretation less subjective would really enhance the game play.

I also like the transitive contact rule change that was proposed earlier. If you are touching another cube that is in contact with the switch wall, it should not be launching.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 05:01 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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Originally Posted by Jarren Harkema View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesCH95 View Post
Have a weighted Companion Cube for each alliance, with 2-4x the mass of a normal power cube. Keeps with the video game aesthetic, and adds an interesting strategic element.



(I think someone on 2370 mentioned a weighted cube as an interesting rules twist)


If you really want to make it interesting, stick it in the center of the Cube Zone pile.
I really like this. The best part is that you could chose where to play it. You could use it on the scale or the switch to gain a significant advantage. I also like the idea of being able to gain weighted cubes through the exchange. I think it should be limited in quantity to maybe 3 per alliance (one buried in the pile and the other two available through the exchange). You would need to come up with some way of keeping track that you had earned the ones available through the exchange. Maybe another smaller vault that releases the heavy cube when you insert the normal cube.

I think these "heavy" cubes should be a different color so that both alliances can clearly tell that it is a heavy one and where it has been played. The color should be a strong contrast to yellow (and should not be red or blue). Maybe purple?

There would be no changes required to the FMS for this so it would be easy to implement. You would just need a few extra power cubes, something to add the weight and a different color cover.

Ohhhhh. The extra layer of strategy that these would bring to the game is really tantalizing.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 10:17 PM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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Originally Posted by JamesCH95 View Post
Someone proposed putting it in the center of the power cube pile. This is a great option because it forces an alliance to mine for it, push their pile cubes out of the protected zone, or make longer cycle trips if they want the first cubes on the scale. In the intervening time the other alliance can make shorter cycles with the platform zone cubes.

Do you got for the initial shorter cycles to get an early advantage? Or do you make longer cycles or mine the power cube pile harder, ignoring the scale, and hope you can catch up? Or do you say 'screw it' and put the weighted cube on your switch to protect from a portal nuke so you can load the exchange fully? Or do you send it down-field to the other switch to avoid the 'switch overflow' and force the other alliance to load more cubes in their switch? Do you play yours first or wait to counter the other alliance's companion cube?

I think it adds a great new twist.
I see where you're coming from here. I was initially thinking that putting the weighted cube on the Switch would be a no-go, since this was discussed in another thread where the general consensus was that it would be too strong to put the weighted cube on the Switch. So they thought it would be best the make that a penalty. It is a bit strong, being that you basically have full control over the Switch the cube is in.

But looking at it now it does add another depth to it that I really like. But it could be simply rendered useless if they are on the same Switch/Scale. Which could also be strategic, but we would end up back where we started without them.
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Unread 05-11-2018, 12:46 AM
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Re: Proposals for 2018 IRI Rule Changes?

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Originally Posted by wgorgen View Post
Shooting the power cubes along the ground should also not be considered launching (even though rule G22 talks about "kicking" them "across the floor"). You had to push the cubes across the floor some small distance to put them into the exchange which was never called for launching. But if you shot the cube across the floor in other places on the field you could be called. I think making this interpretation less subjective would really enhance the game play.
That part of the interpretation was quite clear in G09C. Launching was legal if your bumpers were in the Exchange Zone going for the Exchange. Otherwise, a kick across the floor could be counted as an illegal launch.

What bugs me more is the "lack of" definition for launching. The definition in G22 is the definition that was called. First, it should have been included in G09 as well, or at least in the Glossary. Second, it's non-specific enough to produce a spectrum of interpretations that are all covered--there's one heck of a difference between running intake rollers in reverse at slow speed to drop a cube off and running shooter rollers at high speed to send a cube flying, but they're both launching, per definition.
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