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Unread 04-16-2012, 06:37 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

I don't have a graph, but things break down like this:
  • Arizona: 9 (842, 1011, 1212, 1828, 2403, 2486, 2844, 4146, 4183)
  • Arkansas: 5 (16, 568, 2410, 3937, 4090)
  • California: 40, (8, 100, 115, 192, 207, 254, 330, 399, 585, 597, 604, 692, 702, 766, 840, 971, 973, 1266, 1458, 1515, 1538, 1622, 1662, 1671, 1678, 1717, 1868, 2085, 2102, 2339, 3128, 3189, 3255, 3255, 3453, 3476, 3512, 3925, 3965, 3970)
  • Colorado: 4 (1583, 2996, 3807, 4055)
  • Connecticut: 10 (175, 178, 181, 195, 236, 237, 571, 716, 2067, 3634)
  • Delaware: 1 (365)
  • District of Columbia (DC): 1 (2914)
  • Florida: 16 (79, 86, 168, 180, 233, 744, 801, 1592, 1649, 1875, 1902, 2757, 3410, 3627, 4013, 4379)
  • Georgia: 6 (1261, 1311, 1683, 2415, 2974, 4188)
  • Hawaii: 7 (359, 2090, 2439, 2460, 3008, 3880, 4218)
  • Idaho: 4 (2122, 2130, 3456, 4086)
  • Iowa: 1 (525)
  • Illinois: 8 (111, 1208, 1736, 1756, 2022, 2704, 2949, 4143)
  • Indiana: 12 (45, 234, 461, 868, 1018, 1501, 1741, 1747, 3176, 3936, 3940, 3947)
  • Kansas: 2 (1108, 1710)
  • Kentucky: 2 (3259, 3259)
  • Louisiana: 2 (1912, 4353)
  • Maine: 3 (58, 2648, 3930)
  • Maryland: 6 (836, 1111, 1629, 2377, 3951, 4099)
  • Massachusetts: 9 (69, 125, 126, 190, 246, 839, 3205, 3566, 3927)
  • Michigan: 33 (1, 27, 33, 51, 67, 68, 85, 107, 244, 245, 247, 288, 469, 548, 573, 815, 830, 1023, 1504, 1506, 1718, 1918, 2054, 2337, 2474, 2591, 2834, 2960, 3098, 3115, 3322, 3357, 4130)
  • Minnesota: 13 (1816, 2169, 2220, 2500, 2512, 1574, 2705, 3018, 3081, 3630, 3747, 4226, 4228)
  • Missouri: 11 (1329, 1764, 1985, 1986, 1987, 2164, 2902, 3528, 3784, 4256, 4356)
  • Nevada: 1 (987)
  • New Hampshire: 5 (151, 1058, 1519, 1831, 3585)
  • New Jersey: 10 (41, 293, 555, 714, 816, 1403, 1647, 1676, 2590, 3142)
  • New York: 29 (20, 191, 263, 271, 329, 340, 358, 369, 375, 378, 527, 533, 3015, 564, 639, 694, 870, 1126, 1507, 1511, 1635, 1796, 2638, 3173, 3419, 3950, 3951, 4122, 4203)
  • North Carolina: 6 (435, 587, 2059, 2640, 2642, 3196)
  • Ohio: 11 (48, 120, 128, 144, 279, 1014, 1038, 2010, 2603, 4028, 4269)
  • Oklahoma: 5 (932, 1209, 2341, 2395, 3931)
  • Oregon: 6 (956, 1425, 1540, 2898, 4043, 4057)
  • Pennsylvania: 9 (103, 222, 272, 341, 433, 1143, 1391, 3504, 4031)
  • Rhode Island: 2 (78, 1350)
  • South Carolina: 6 (281, 342, 415, 1319, 2815, 4083)
  • Texas: 20 (118, 148, 231, 457, 624, 1477, 1642, 1817, 2158, 2468, 2881, 2936, 3103, 3310, 3335, 3481, 3847, 3999, 4206, 4300)
  • Tennessee: 1 (4264)
  • Utah: 2 (3230, 3245)
  • Virginia: 6 (384, 611, 1033, 1262, 1885, 4394)
  • Vermont: 1 (116)
  • Washington: 17 (360, 488, 492, 1778, 1983, 2046, 2471, 2517, 2522, 2557, 2928, 3574, 3711, 3860, 3968, 4082, 4089)
  • West Virginia: 1 (2614)
  • Wisconsin: 10 (269, 537, 706, 1306, 1714, 1732, 2062, 2194, 2826, 4021)
  • Wyoming: 1 (3288)
  • Canada (Alberta): 1 (4334)
  • Canada (Quebec): 5 (296, 2626, 3530, 3981, 3990)
  • Canada (Ontario): 14 (610, 771, 772, 781, 1114, 1219, 1241, 1305, 2056, 2200, 2809, 4001, 4069, 4372)
  • Canada (Total): 20
  • Brazil: 2 (1382, 1772)
  • Israel: 5 (1574, 1690, 1937, 3083, 4320)
  • Australia: 1 (3132)
  • Mexico: 3 (3158, 4262, 4403)
  • Taiwan: 1 (4253)

Sorry this post is so long. A LOT of data to look at.

Edit: Darn. Mark McLeod beat me to all the numbers -_- ah well. These are here for anyone who wishes to see them.
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Unread 04-16-2012, 06:44 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

Michigan is clearly under-represented.
/sarcasm
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Unread 04-16-2012, 07:09 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

By my count, 13 California teams bought themselves in, 23 qualified at California events, 4 qualified at out of state or out of country events, and 2 pre-qualified. Additionally, one out of state team qualified at a California event. There were 5 regionals in California.

254 both pre-qualified and qualified at a California event. 971, 604, and 1717 qualified at two California events.
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Unread 04-16-2012, 08:56 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric O View Post
I haven't seen all the teams in FIRST this year, but do know there are a lot of historically successful teams not currently signed up for Championship. Statistically speaking, there are 11 of the top 30 championship teams not attending. This is based on Jim Zondag's "FIRST Championship History Results - 2011". To put it in perspective only 3 of those teams did not attend or make the elimination rounds in 2010, 7 in 2009, 6 in 2008, and 12 in 2007.

The 11 teams are:
177
217
968
71
25
1625
1503
294
3138
40 (Didn't compete in 2012)
188


This is as of 6pm on 4/16. I did not check to see if any of these qualified and have just not been put on the website. Even if there are a couple of these teams that qualified, having a championship without teams like 71, 217 & 968 is a loss for those who are attending and could have seen the amazing machines they build each year. To everyone who is attending, with these 11 teams out of the running, I expect to see some new teams moving up in Zondag's 2012 version of this list! Is it going to be your team?!

-Eric
We aren't listed on the FIRST website yet, but rest assured that Team 25 will be joining the fray at the championship after qualifying this past weekend.

I agree with the others who have posted so far that the championship will definitely feel different without many of the traditional powerhouse teams in attendance.
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Unread 04-16-2012, 09:18 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

So, I just want to throw my 2 cents into the hat, taking a "Devil's Advocate" side to things.

A lot of people are expressing gripes over traditional powerhouses at champs this year. I understand that. Championships is where the best of the best are supposed to gather, and teams like 177, 217 and 71 are some of the best in history. I get having champs without former world champions at the championship event is a little sad. I get not having some of the most legendary teams at champs is a little sad. But, what I'm getting at here, is maybe it's time for a change?

For the past few years, champs has had a lot of consistent powerhouse teams doing what they do best: win. For the past 6 years, 177 gets to Einstein, teams like 217 and 71 run things in their divisions. You get a familiar crowd on Einstein because the ones that make it to Einstein are the best in our competition, and are never far from regional gold. What if it's time for a changing of the guard, so to speak? Now that some of the powerhouses aren't attending champs this year, maybe it's going to give a new generation of FRC teams a chance to step it up. To date, if I recall correctly, 1114 is the youngest team to have ever won the world championship, starting in 2003. I think it's going to be a year where a younger generation of FRC teams steal the show. Teams who have never had a shot at the big one may finally get it. The result could be a new level of competition, as teams gain the experience from serious competition.

I'm not saying I'm happy these teams are missing out. I love watching those teams compete against the best in the world because they are the best. I just don't think it's right to say that, because those teams missed out on champs, the system is flawed. I think it means it's time to look out for some fresh blood to get their shots at the big time.
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Unread 04-16-2012, 09:42 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeland1126 View Post
For the past few years, champs has had a lot of consistent powerhouse teams doing what they do best: win. For the past 6 years, 177 gets to Einstein, teams like 217 and 71 run things in their divisions. You get a familiar crowd on Einstein because the ones that make it to Einstein are the best in our competition, and are never far from regional gold. What if it's time for a changing of the guard, so to speak? Now that some of the powerhouses aren't attending champs this year, maybe it's going to give a new generation of FRC teams a chance to step it up. To date, if I recall correctly, 1114 is the youngest team to have ever won the world championship, starting in 2003. I think it's going to be a year where a younger generation of FRC teams steal the show. Teams who have never had a shot at the big one may finally get it. The result could be a new level of competition, as teams gain the experience from serious competition.
I don't think there's a flaw in the system--aside from the highly limited number of open slots (a number sure to diminish or disappear in coming years), the criteria to punch your ticket to St. Louis are clear. We've been on the wrong side of that once, and no excuses--the train stopped at Palmetto that year.

But your point is valid: There's room at the top, perhaps more so than any time in recent memory. We certainly hope to knock 1114 off their highest-number-to-win-Einstein perch.
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Unread 04-16-2012, 09:46 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeland1126 View Post
I think it means it's time to look out for some fresh blood to get their shots at the big time.
If anything, this is the year for that to happen. Not only from the attendance list, but also because of the game. There are so many great robots this year that it isn't cut and clear who will win because strategy plays such an important role in the game (obviously, it plays a huge role in any game, but this year it seems to be what causes the number of upsets, turnarounds, excitement etc). In additon, tha ranking system plays a big role. Typically, the best teams make it to the top because they are, well, the best; this year seems to balance out the rankings, spread out a lot of high quality teams and make eliminations exciting. So, as you said, I think it is definitely time for some new powerhouses to rise up.
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Unread 04-16-2012, 09:56 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

I don't think its time for fresh blood necessarily, I think it is just time for more blood. There are a lot of up and coming teams but I don't think they will overthrow the great teams already up there, just join the teams we all consider great.

I think it is just somewhat sentimental/sad that 71, 188 217, 177, 968, 910, 1625, 1503 and more won't be attending because we have looked up to them over the years and were looking forward to competing with them. We all have off years it happens.

Which is why my goal is be in St. Louis next year because I'm sure those teams won't stay home two years in a row!
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Unread 04-16-2012, 09:59 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

4294 still has not registered for Championships. 217 may be able to go at this rate, but it would be nice if 4294 could confirm if they will be attending or not.
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Unread 04-16-2012, 10:01 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

I do have to say that team 862 deserves a spot. Team 862 pick our team twice throughout the 2012 season, so hats off our alliance captain, you honestly deserved to go.
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Unread 04-16-2012, 10:05 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCentola View Post
I think it is definitely time for some new powerhouses to rise up.
If they can get past 67, 1114, 2056, 987, 341, 469, 16, and all the established powerhouses that WILL be there and will undoubtedly be tearing up their divisions!

There are really great robots mentioned in this thread like 1771, 2168, 2481, and others that were very very close to winning the regionals they went to as high alliance captains and high picks. These teams deserve so much more credit than they are getting in this thread. Then there are teams like 217 and 71 that are mentioned constantly - people are surprised they are not going because of how well they performed in previous years. But you have to build a new robot each year, and compete in a new game each year.

Notice that the title of this thread is "Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition". It's just strange how many people are listing previous years' performances as evidence that teams' 2012 robots are the best. Unless we're talking about robots over all the years, in which case I nominate 71's 2002 robot, 25's 2006 robot, and 1114's 2008 robot as the best robots not at Championship.

I'm sure great teams like 217 and 71 and 177 will continue to make great machines and will qualify for Champs next year!
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Unread 04-16-2012, 10:16 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by JABot67 View Post
If they can get past 67, 1114, 2056, 987, 341, 469, 16, and all the established powerhouses that WILL be there and will undoubtedly be tearing up their divisions!
Definitely, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for newer teams to get their chance. I think 67, 341 and 2056 are definitely the top 3 contenders in my book (in no particular order) but each alliance has 3 teams and there is enough room for new faces. To me, 3138 in 2010 is a great example of how new teams can be just as capable. I'm not saying that the teams you mentioned won't dominate (because they have already done so and will continue to do so this season), but I just think this is a great game for teams outside the traditional list of powerhouses to show their worth.
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Unread 04-16-2012, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animenerdjohn View Post
FIRST should release a translational dictionary of a few of the game terms ("Basket" "Ball" "bridge" "balance" "fender" etc) each year if were going to keep adding different countries. That way we can cooperate better.
Interestingly enough, this was the first year the game manual was translated. A French version was made available at kick-off to our teams in Quebec. It was a neat process to ensure the integrity of the game was protected, and paved the way for setting up FRC to truly go global. It wasn't easy, nor cheap, but the outcome of the effort was truly amazing!
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Unread 04-16-2012, 10:23 PM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by JABot67 View Post
I'm sure great teams like 217 and 71 and 177 will continue to make great machines and will qualify for Champs next year!
This. I'm not worrying about what will happen to 71, 177, 217, etc.
I know they'll work extra hard next year to make some magic happen. Why? We've been there before. We couldn't buy our way out of the semifinals at any of our competitions in 2010 due to design decisions, bad strategy, bad scouting data, etc, and without our HOF spot, we wouldn't have qualified for champs that year. Not wanting a repeat of breakaway, we worked our butts off the next year and it paid off.

Every team (or business), has some off years every once in a while. You just have to accept that teams have strategy errors, make design mistakes, or have purely bad luck.
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Unread 04-17-2012, 12:41 AM
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Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecMataloni View Post
This. I'm not worrying about what will happen to 71, 177, 217, etc.
I know they'll work extra hard next year to make some magic happen. Why? We've been there before. We couldn't buy our way out of the semifinals at any of our competitions in 2010 due to design decisions, bad strategy, bad scouting data, etc, and without our HOF spot, we wouldn't have qualified for champs that year. Not wanting a repeat of breakaway, we worked our butts off the next year and it paid off.

Every team (or business), has some off years every once in a while. You just have to accept that teams have strategy errors, make design mistakes, or have purely bad luck.
Almost the same story for us in 2010 (except for HOF spot). For us, 2010 is "The year that we will not speak of".Two finalist medals and struggles with design issues left us with a decision. We actually burned ourselves out trying to design and build a way to hoist 2 robots up with us and in the end ran out of time and energy to lift even our robot up. We (the whole team)asked ourselves if we earned the right to take advantage of our wait list selection that year or if we should stay home and focus on the next year...the team voted to stay home. The point is, everybody has some years better or worse than others and it's hard to say if a team "deserves" to go to CMP or not. Who knows, maybe some of the great teams listed in this thread would come to the same decision we did...or not
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