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Unread 01-29-2018, 01:38 PM
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2018 Einstein Schedule

Has anyone else noticed that the Championship Event Schedules are posted to firstchampionship.org?

Specifically, I notice a change to the round robin schedule, see below screen shots:





I'm very interested in hearing how the Einstein Round Robin will work, assuming the layout for the GRB is similar to 2017. I think this will make watching all the Round Robin matches difficult, since there is no way 6 divisions-worth of audience will fit in one field's bleachers.

Also, I imagine it will be hard sell for many teams to head to Minute Maid Park at 6:30pm to watch 2 or 3 FRC Finals Matches. The CCA Announcement happens then too, and I imagine that will lack attendance too.

Overall, I'm left wishing they stuck with last year's format, just sped up some of the transitions, particularly between Divisions and start of Einstein, and match timing between Einstein matches.

What do you think?

-Mike
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Unread 01-29-2018, 01:41 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

If its anything like last year, even ignoring the unplanned delay from mother nature, attendance is going to be very poor imo.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 01:50 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

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Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto View Post
What do you think?
I think this program lacks a sufficient long term vision and that keeps showing up in the decisions that are made without actually understanding the core problems that need to be fixed. Mostly I think this because there are no alumni on the board.

Ohh, you meant about the Einstein matches... yeah, it's not great either.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 01:54 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

This looks like they are trying to fix the Minute Maid nightmare by creating a GRB nightmare..
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Unread 01-29-2018, 01:56 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

There is 0% chance they finish a 15 game round robin in 2 hours. They'd cut it close on that even without intermittent presenters.

Changing field conditions (inside to outside, lighting, etc) for just Einstein finals. Man what could go wrong there?

I think the best solution involves ditching minute maid. FIRST needs to use NRG to have any sort of decent setup. Multiple venues in general is going to hurt attendance and peoples experience. Houston was not a good venue choice for FRC. The only ways to make it work involve jumping through a LOT of hoops.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 01:56 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

The World Championship(s) isn't about the matches, it's about getting as many teams the experience as possible.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 01:58 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

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Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe View Post
The World Championship(s) isn't about the matches, it's about getting as many teams the experience as possible.
Yeah, and that experience sucked at MMP.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 01:58 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

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Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto View Post

What do you think?

-Mike
I think we are witnessing the next evolution of FIRST's attempt to fit a round peg into an nrg-shaped-hole. It's sort of tentacle-like in nature.

The postseason exhibitions in Houston and Detroit feel less and less like an opportunity for teams to enjoy FIRST and more and more like an opportunity for FIRST's donors to enjoy FIRST.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 02:03 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

I have concerns with this. However I also have some potentially positive observations:

1) GRB will not be subject to massive security chokepoints. Yes seating is a concern and needing to do crowd control may negate some of that, but at least bag restrictions shouldn't be an issue.

2) A possibly intentional, possibly unintentional side effect of having only Einstein finals in Minute Maid is that the crowds probably won't be as big, so the massive security lines shouldn't be as much of an issue. It's for the wrong reasons, but it's a likely result.

3) I haven't looked at the sunset time for Houston in April, but this may mitigate the direct sunlight problem by starting later in Minute Maid

4) The Detroit schedule appears to be doing the same thing. It's possible this is because they're trying to apply the lessons learned from Houston, or it's possible that Detroit has a restriction that Houston does not, but they want both to be as similar as possible and/or "test" the new setup in Houston (where 1 CMP has already been held) to minimize the new variables in Detroit.

Just some thoughts. This is far from an "ideal" setup, but there maybe other factors that went into the planning that we're not privy to. Would be nice to see a blog post from Frank & Co sometime in the near future outlining what the plan is for the Championships and how they expect the new schedule logistics to mitigate last year's problems.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 02:05 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

So they booked 2 baseball stadiums for 4 to 6 matches. Oof.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 02:06 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

If this holds, my guess is that they hold the round robin on 1 or 2 fields, and broadcast to the others. As long as the broadcast is marginally better than last years Einstein broadcast, it'd be better viewing than from over 100 meters distance at Minute Maid.

Moving everyone over to Minute Maid for 2-3 matches... unlikely to be popular, especially after last year. My team was already saying they were likely skipping Einstein or watching a broadcast from a restaurant or hotel. If it's only 2-3 matches, I can guarantee you the only way we're going is if we're playing.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 02:13 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuttyman54 View Post
I have concerns with this. However I also have some potentially positive observations:

1) GRB will not be subject to massive security chokepoints. Yes seating is a concern and needing to do crowd control may negate some of that, but at least bag restrictions shouldn't be an issue.

2) A possibly intentional, possibly unintentional side effect of having only Einstein finals in Minute Maid is that the crowds probably won't be as big, so the massive security lines shouldn't be as much of an issue. It's for the wrong reasons, but it's a likely result.

3) I haven't looked at the sunset time for Houston in April, but this may mitigate the direct sunlight problem by starting later in Minute Maid

4) The Detroit schedule appears to be doing the same thing. It's possible this is because they're trying to apply the lessons learned from Houston, or it's possible that Detroit has a restriction that Houston does not, but they want both to be as similar as possible and/or "test" the new setup in Houston (where 1 CMP has already been held) to minimize the new variables in Detroit.

Just some thoughts. This is far from an "ideal" setup, but there maybe other factors that went into the planning that we're not privy to. Would be nice to see a blog post from Frank & Co sometime in the near future outlining what the plan is for the Championships and how they expect the new schedule logistics to mitigate last year's problems.
This is more or less how I'm looking at it, especially the sunlight issue. Here are two pictures I took at MMP, one at 5:09 PM local time and one at 9:05 PM: https://imgur.com/a/jGObs Splitting the difference should make it more bearable, especially if they slightly front-load speakers and FTC (which can be curtained off like last year to lessen the light issue).

(That said, I don't know what their backup plan is for Detroit if Houston is the guinea pig seven days prior.)
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Unread 01-29-2018, 02:21 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

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Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
So they booked 2 baseball stadiums for 4 to 6 matches. Oof.
That was my thought - they are bringing an entire extra field, all the supporting gear and set up time/cost. They are paying for security/janitorial in an entire secondary venue. They are dealing with logistics of transporting large numbers of people between two venues... All to cover a poor decision to move to a venue that doesn't meet the needs of the program?

This doesn't seem like a good use of resources.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 02:27 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
That was my thought - they are bringing an entire extra field, all the supporting gear and set up time/cost. They are paying for security/janitorial in an entire secondary venue. They are dealing with logistics of transporting large numbers of people between two venues... All to cover a poor decision to move to a venue that doesn't meet the needs of the program?

This doesn't seem like a good use of resources.
While I remain unconvinced so far that Minute Maid Park is an ideal venue for a FIRST event, I also recognize that FIRST may not have a better alternative for the duration of their deal in Houston.

Can't get the Toyota Center during NBA Playoffs, NRG Stadium means at least buses across town for staff, volunteers, and invited guests if absolutely nothing else (and given the narrow time to migrate everyone, we're talking multiple buses), and even if you got either of those venues I don't see Minute Maid Park ripping up their signed agreement for free.

However one feels about Houston and 2Champz, this particular change feels like a downstream effect of decisions made years ago.
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Unread 01-29-2018, 02:28 PM
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Re: 2018 Einstein Schedule

.......so #Atlanta2019?
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