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Unread 12-01-2017, 01:48 PM
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Redline motors

So Andymark dropped their new product stack. Included was a bunch of stuff for their new Redline motors, including drivetrain stuff...

For comparison here is the vex 775 pro page

Are we looking at redline drivetrains???
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Unread 12-01-2017, 01:53 PM
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Re: Redline motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyehawk View Post
So Andymark dropped their new product stack. Included was a bunch of stuff for their new Redline motors, including drivetrain stuff...

For comparison here is the vex 775 pro page

Are we looking at redline drivetrains???
According to the other thread ( https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...4&postcount=44 ) these are the same motor. Just one is red.

So, the one you use will probably just come down to shipping cost and time.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 01:54 PM
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Re: Redline motors

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Originally Posted by Skyehawk View Post
Are we looking at redline drivetrains???
I hope not. Not now, at least. I have no doubts that 775-series drivetrains will be popular one day, but there isn't enough testing, code, data, and general knowledge publicly available yet to assure performance without failure at critical moments.

Until then, I expect these types of drivetrains to almost automatically move teams to the top of the DNP list for high-profile teams, just like a first year team doing swerve. Overall, the risk just isn't worth it yet.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 02:00 PM
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Re: Redline motors

Maybe I should have entitled this redline/775pro drivetrains... bit of a mistake on my part.

Regardless, I'm curious if Andymark wants to bring this mainstream I guess we'll see once robot reveal vids drop.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 02:04 PM
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Re: Redline motors

The Redline EVO Shifter is a nice option, but I suspect there'll be a team or two that somehow manages to miss the "specially optimized for specifically 4" wheels and nothing else" bit in the description.

It is nice that a COTS 775 gearbox exists though.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:38 PM
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Re: Redline motors

Andymark also released this gearbox.

Meaning we could see 2,775W+ shifting drivetrains. If this game has a flat field, the defense played by something like that would be insane.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:40 PM
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Re: Redline motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_L View Post
I hope not. Not now, at least. I have no doubts that 775-series drivetrains will be popular one day, but there isn't enough testing, code, data, and general knowledge publicly available yet to assure performance without failure at critical moments.

Until then, I expect these types of drivetrains to almost automatically move teams to the top of the DNP list for high-profile teams, just like a first year team doing swerve. Overall, the risk just isn't worth it yet.
I wouldn't go that far...I mean...teams like 16 and 2451 used them without much issue from what I hear. Surely you wouldn't automatically move them to the top of your DNP, right? You've got to actually do the scouting work to see if it's really an issue for teams. For some teams, it will be a problem, but just because they have 775s on their drivetrain doesn't mean you should automatically rule them out.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:46 PM
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Re: Redline motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by piersklein View Post
Andymark also released this gearbox.

Meaning we could see 2,775W+ shifting drivetrains. If this game has a flat field, the defense played by something like that would be insane.
Reality check: main breaker 120amps @ 12v = 1440 watts

There was a thread somewhere with the breaker response to flipping as a function of time at various overloads. But Ill be damned if I can find it. (This was a big topic in 2014 ). Also, as many know, stalling 775 "whatevers" tends to let the smoke out. So even if you could get all that power into the carpet you likely wouldn't be able to do it for very long.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:49 PM
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Re: Redline motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill View Post
I wouldn't go that far...I mean...teams like 16 and 2451 used them without much issue from what I hear. Surely you wouldn't automatically move them to the top of your DNP, right? You've got to actually do the scouting work to see if it's really an issue for teams. For some teams, it will be a problem, but just because they have 775s on their drivetrain doesn't mean you should automatically rule them out.
I think the main issue is people may see this to be just like a CIM and use them like a CIM (extrapolating what i have seen from arguments on here about 775's in drivetrains on CD) and may misuse them, resulting in an increase of destroyed motors (or even worse ruined robots.) I can easily see a team not realizing the difference between them (heck, past that the 775 is better for long running use like a ball intake im still not totally sure of the difference) and accidentally ruining themselves not realizing what the issue is.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:49 PM
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Re: Redline motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyehawk View Post
There was a thread somewhere with the breaker response to flipping as a function of time at various overloads. But Ill be damned if I can find it. (This was a big topic in 2014 ). Also, as many know, stalling 775 "whatevers" tends to let the smoke out. So even if you could get all that power into the carpet you likely wouldn't be able to do it for very long.
That information is right in the datasheet on the Downloads tab of the product page for the breaker.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:54 PM
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Re: Redline motors

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Originally Posted by Andrew_L View Post
but there isn't enough testing, code, data, and general knowledge publicly available yet to assure performance without failure at critical moments.
Out of curiosity, what would be expected out of code for a 775pro/Redline drivetrain beyond a quick tank drive class? I assume a safety amperage shutoff would be needed along with a way of checking if the wheels are spinning at the right speed through an encoder, right?
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:55 PM
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Re: Redline motors

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Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure View Post
That information is right in the datasheet on the Downloads tab of the product page for the breaker.
I have no idea why I didn't look there, stupid obvious in hindsight, long week I guess. Thanks for linking
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:56 PM
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Re: Redline motors

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Originally Posted by Michael Hill View Post
I wouldn't go that far...I mean...teams like 16 and 2451 used them without much issue from what I hear.
I think 16's blew up on them in turing semifinals.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:56 PM
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Re: Redline motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill View Post
I wouldn't go that far...I mean...teams like 16 and 2451 used them without much issue from what I hear. Surely you wouldn't automatically move them to the top of your DNP, right? You've got to actually do the scouting work to see if it's really an issue for teams. For some teams, it will be a problem, but just because they have 775s on their drivetrain doesn't mean you should automatically rule them out.

I would place both those teams well above most FRC teams. I personally consider both 16 and 2451 to be among the best innovators in the program. I wouldn't necessarily use their success as a benchmark, as they can both make very complicated things look very easy.

The 775 COTS gearbox (especially the shifting gearbox) seems very aggressively geared (19.5 Ft/s on 4 inch wheels). To me this doesn't feel like something you can blindly use without some significant design around some of the electrical limitations of the control system. It feels very much like a trap to me.

That said, it might not be an automatic DNP, but it certainly raises some serious alarms for me.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 04:04 PM
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Re: Redline motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyehawk View Post
Reality check: main breaker 120amps @ 12v = 1440 watts

There was a thread somewhere with the breaker response to flipping as a function of time at various overloads. But Ill be damned if I can find it. (This was a big topic in 2014 ). Also, as many know, stalling 775 "whatevers" tends to let the smoke out. So even if you could get all that power into the carpet you likely wouldn't be able to do it for very long.
Just use two batteries. Say the second one is just for added weight.
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