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Unread 05-03-2017, 12:46 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mike View Post
The pit announcer was using the only tools he has to mediate the situation. Unfortunately it became a game instead of a correction. To fix the root of the problem we need to add some teeth to the rule. If a safety advisor and/or key volunteer see a serious situation they report it to pit admin. Pit admin sends a message to the head ref. When a team that has an infraction sets up on the field for a match, the head ref displays a yellow card for an unsafe act in the pits.
The video of the safety run is out and I hope teams take appropriate action.

Mr. Mike
But what about people that wear other team's shirts? Or parents of students on a team who don't know the rules? Or alumni of the team? Seems like it would be pretty terrible for a team to be penalized by any of the above...
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Unread 05-03-2017, 12:56 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

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Originally Posted by Mr. Mike View Post
The pit announcer was using the only tools he has to mediate the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

The tool was clearly ineffective. Especially for the majority of people not in site of the pit announcer, The excessive volume was painful. Working in high noise environments I have learned to tune out noise. By the end of the competition I probably would not have noticed if the pit announcer said the building was on fire.
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Unread 05-03-2017, 02:00 PM
Prestochangeo1 Prestochangeo1 is offline
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Hello, I'm a three-year Safety Captain and I thought I lot would be a good time to chip in my 2 cents.

First off, running in general: big no no. Just don't do it, even if you're late. It puts yourself and others at risk (Safety Manual Pg. 6)
-Side note: the little race at St. Louis was inappropriate and dangerous, and very shameful for those who ran.

Secondly, the Pit Announcer. At first he was helpful with a few polite reminders about not running, but after a while it deteriorated and became very unprofessional. I understand that it had been days and a constant problem, however it could have been handled better on his part. Slandering and being rude to students is completely un-gracious, and it became a nuisance and itís own hazard to be screaming over the PA.

As for the mention of Safety Advisors: yes, they should be the ones more or less speaking with individuals running, not necessarily a PA about it... However, they were severely understaffed--only two per subdivision plus two floaters--who had to conduct interviews most of the time and were usually unavailable.

Overall, things could have been handled better on all ends, and it was not necessarily only one individual's fault. The Safety Captains could have done their jobs more, there could have been more Safety Advisors, and a way to go about (procedure for) making announcements in the pit.
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Unread 05-03-2017, 02:27 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourPenguins View Post
Is anyone else really annoyed with the pit announcer?

Is anyone else really annoyed with students who think running in the pit for any reason is more important than their safety? The only validation I have ever seen for running is when you have a student hurt badly and you are trying to hunt down a medic. The one time I have ever had this situation, I was shouting at the top of my lungs warning people I was looking for someone I knew was medically trained more than I was and I was doing it at a clip.

That said, I thought there were several times that he crossed the line but had many more important things to tend to instead of asking him to tone it down. If you have beef with him, talk to FIRST. Ask the man directly to chill a bit. Posting on CD about how things werent great wont do much to help.
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Unread 05-03-2017, 02:36 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Quote:
Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 View Post
That said, I thought there were several times that he crossed the line but had many more important things to tend to instead of asking him to tone it down. If you have beef with him, talk to FIRST. Ask the man directly to chill a bit. Posting on CD about how things werent great wont do much to help.
People have already stated in this thread that they tried talking to the volunteer coordinator and were dismissed, thus the posts on Chief Delphi - a perfectly valid place to voice concerns on the internet about FIRST.
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Unread 05-03-2017, 03:23 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Having attended regionals in the last couple years where the announcer did not yell at kids for running (and yes, occasionally they did run) I can honestly say that it contributes to much more positive climate.

If you're going to yell obnoxiously at someone specific, get a bullhorn that is directional. At least then when you are banging your head against the wall unsuccessfully trying to change a marginally unsafe behavior when there are clearly much more unsafe things happening like segways and scooters (ARE YOU FRIGGING KIDDING ME!) and loud noises that you should be worried about you are only annoying the unfortunate teams who drew the short straw and have to be near you. (Was it ironic that this is about not running and that was a run-on sentence?)

Yeah, it was obnoxious. No, you really don't have to do it. Please, for the love of all that is technological, stop it.

So, here's a way to get him to stop. Bring a bullhorn and blast him back with positive comments complimenting people on their walking every time he gets rude. Eventually, he'll get the message.
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Unread 05-03-2017, 03:56 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Tatorscout View Post
So, here's a way to get him to stop. Bring a bullhorn and blast him back with positive comments complimenting people on their walking every time he gets rude. Eventually, he'll get the message.
"There's too much noise pollution and public shaming in the pit"
"Let's make more noise and passive aggressive public shaming until the person behind the existing noise shuts up"
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Unread 05-03-2017, 04:00 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Tatorscout View Post
So, here's a way to get him to stop. Bring a bullhorn and blast him back ...
Oh, please, don't do this. I know it might seem right, but it isn't. IMHO, bullhorns and vuvezelas should be considered 'noisy devices' per rule E6.

Fighting noise with noise just adds to the noise.
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Unread 05-03-2017, 04:07 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Wallace View Post
Oh, please, don't do this. I know it might seem right, but it isn't. IMHO, bullhorns and vuvezelas should be considered 'noisy devices' per rule E6.

Fighting noise with noise just adds to the noise.
[heavy sarcasm with a touch of humor] Parade of robots past pit announcer with all shouting robot? It is time to fight fire with fire.[/heavy sarcasm with a touch of humor] ]
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Unread 05-03-2017, 04:32 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

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Originally Posted by Richard Wallace View Post
Fighting noise with noise just adds to the noise.
It's important to note though, because this is Chief Delphi, that from a physics perspective "fighting noise with noise" is quite different than "making twice as much noise" because perceived loudness is not a property that can be treated additively.

When you double the intensity of an acoustic power source, the perceived loudness will not also double.

A 2x increase in noise will only result in a 3dB increase in loudness.

Whether Rapid Oxidation Events [1] are measurable in terms that can be added [2] is an excercise that is left to the reader.

[1] ROEs
[2] Does "fighting fire with fire" double the amount of fire? Discuss.
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Unread 05-03-2017, 04:41 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
Part of the reason for running in St. Louis is teams trying to sprint back and forth from the pits to the dome floor. While, ideally, every team would always be on time for their matches with all the tools and freshly charged batteries they need for their matches, the reality is that this is a high school competition. Teams are going to forget stuff in the pit. I wonder if some of the running could be remedied by having an set of "emergency tools" and batteries for teams to loan while in queue.
Something I never understood is why the route going to the the field in St. Louis is longer than the route returning to the pits.

I understand keeping to the right is natural, but why encourage a rushed behavior when you need to get to the field. We were surprised at one point on our field when we ran ahead of schedule and had to "jog" because we lost our 15 minute window we thought we had.

Show up early, bring what you need, etc. Is all good until you end up in an emergency situation. If this is such an issue we need the PA announcer going over it all day Wednesday-Saturday just station volunteers down the main path. I think its ridiculous to bring sponsors or VIPs to the pits when all they'll hear is this guy making noise.
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Unread 05-03-2017, 07:19 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mike View Post
If a safety advisor and/or key volunteer see a serious situation they report it to pit admin. Pit admin sends a message to the head ref. When a team that has an infraction sets up on the field for a match, the head ref displays a yellow card for an unsafe act in the pits.
Youch. That might be a little harsh.

OTOH, Rule C01...

You'd have to run the rule like C01 this year, but it's doable.
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Unread 05-03-2017, 10:45 PM
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

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Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace View Post
But what about people that wear other team's shirts? Or parents of students on a team who don't know the rules? Or alumni of the team? Seems like it would be pretty terrible for a team to be penalized by any of the above...

This may be a topic for another thread but, as always, Carolyn Grace has a valid point. When serving as a Safety Advisor at Regional level, the most problems I had, involved guests, visitors, and parents. I can think of one incident in which I knew the parent that was acting out of line and causing problems in the Pit area, was not closely affiliated with the team. In other words, showed up for the competition and decided to hang out in the team's Pit area, barefoot. I was very grateful that I was the one handling that problem and that I had the FRC background as a mentor and, as a volunteer, to help me. He eventually removed himself from the Pit area, rather than putting his sandals on. It was a shame that the situation embarrassed the members of the team that were in the Pits. They had enough to do, keeping up with the competition demands. This parent's behavior did not reflect on the team, as far as I was concerned.

Also, it always seems that events that I've volunteered at, have 'enough' Safety Advisors but not 'plenty' to go around.

Jane
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Last edited by JaneYoung : 05-03-2017 at 10:57 PM.
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Unread 07-05-2017, 05:29 PM
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Re: WE WALK IN THE PITS

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Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto View Post
Before this gets out of hand, let's just all put this on pause and take an appropriate amount of time to honor and remember Lou and his incredible commitment and dedication to FIRST.

I hope we can all come back to this topic when the discussion is less wrapped up with the tragic loss of a key volunteer in FIRST.

Best,

-Mike
Agreed. Nobody's done anything bad here, but I'm closing the thread for a couple days for the same reason. (If it's been more than a couple days and it's not unlocked, please PM me or any other mod.)
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