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Unread 02-01-2009, 11:46 AM
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Legality of witholding control system post ship

hey everyone
I wanted to ask whether it's possible to send the robot on due day without the electricity system
thank you,
Team #3038
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Unread 02-01-2009, 11:49 AM
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Re: An important question

if by that you mean all the wiring and Crio, and power distrubution, the answer is "no".

You aren't allowed to leave any part of your robot back at the shop once the robot needs to be shipped
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Unread 02-01-2009, 11:54 AM
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Re: An important question

Can we please rename this thread?

T3_1565, your answer is incorrect. Please refer to section 8.3.4
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Unread 02-01-2009, 11:54 AM
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Re: An important question

okay, can you please quote the rule that says it's forbidden? we thought we will be able to leave it behind in order to practice with a similar bot.
thanks again.
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Unread 02-01-2009, 11:56 AM
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Re: An important question

You can withold parts of the robot

Quote:
<R26>....
D. The total weight of the FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE, REPLACEMENT, and UPGRADE PARTS, plus all WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE items) worked upon during this period and brought to the competition event(s) must not exceed the limits specified in Rule <R36>. The primary intent of this rule is to allow teams to withhold the ROBOT control system, the OPERATOR CONSOLE, and selected relevant subsystems, and access them after the shipping deadline. This will allow teams to have the maximum time possible prior to each competition event to develop and complete the software for their ROBOT while maximizing the potential to understand and use the capabilities provided by the new control system.
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Unread 02-01-2009, 11:58 AM
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Re: An important question

so I understand from that that we can do it?
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Unread 02-01-2009, 11:59 AM
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Re: An important question

*obligatory "rules in past years do not apply to this year" reminder*

Quote:
<R26> During the period between the shipment of the ROBOT and the competitions: During this
period, all teams may manufacture SPARE, REPLACEMENT, and UPGRADE PARTS, and
develop software for their ROBOT at their home facility.
A. Teams may manufacture all the SPARE, REPLACEMENT and UPGRADE PARTS they
want.
B. There is no limit to the amount of time that may be put into this effort, other than via the
realities of the calendar.
C. Teams may continue development of any items retained under the WITHHOLDING
ALLOWANCE, continue to work on them during this period, and then bring them to the
competition events.
D. The total weight of the FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE, REPLACEMENT, and UPGRADE
PARTS, plus all WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE items) worked upon during this period and
brought to the competition event(s) must not exceed the limits specified in Rule <R36>.
The primary intent of this rule is to allow teams to withhold the ROBOT control system, the
OPERATOR CONSOLE, and selected relevant subsystems, and access them after the
shipping deadline. This will allow teams to have the maximum time possible prior to each
competition event to develop and complete the software for their ROBOT while maximizing
the potential to understand and use the capabilities provided by the new control system.
Quote:
<R36> Teams may bring a maximum of 40 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE
PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and UPGRADE PARTS, plus all WITHHOLDING
ALLOWANCE items) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their
ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT
during the competition shall arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate with
the ROBOT.
Exception: the OPERATOR CONSOLE is not included in the incoming parts weight
restriction.
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Unread 02-01-2009, 12:49 PM
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Re: An important question - shipping

my apoligises... must be a rule that we set as a team lol... everything must be done... besides spares
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Unread 02-01-2009, 01:13 PM
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Re: An important question - shipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by T3_1565 View Post
my apoligises... must be a rule that we set as a team lol... everything must be done... besides spares
Yes, you can hold onto your control system.
Re-read the part I quoted below from <R26>:

Quote:
The primary intent of this rule is to allow teams to withhold the ROBOT control system, the
OPERATOR CONSOLE, and selected relevant subsystems, and access them after the
shipping deadline. This will allow teams to have the maximum time possible prior to each
competition event to develop and complete the software for their ROBOT while maximizing
the potential to understand and use the capabilities provided by the new control system.
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Unread 02-01-2009, 01:50 PM
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Re: Legality of witholding control system post ship

I know.. all I was saying was apparently the rule I was thinking of was actually set by my team. We ship as much as possible, but its obviously a thing that we do as a team.. again, my apologises.
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Unread 02-01-2009, 02:05 PM
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Re: An important question - shipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by T3_1565 View Post
my apoligises... must be a rule that we set as a team lol... everything must be done... besides spares
It's not a team rule. It's a FIRST Robotics Competition rule -- but it's an old FRC rule that is not in the manual the same way this year. In previous years, there was no WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE. The entire robot (including the Operator Console) was to be shipped by the deadline (a certain weight of fabricated spare parts could be brought to competition separately).

Rules from previous years do not automatically carry over. Only this year's rules apply. This year's rules include the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE.
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Unread 02-01-2009, 02:11 PM
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Re: Legality of witholding control system post ship

oh I see... well there you go! I was right all along (last year) lol...
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Unread 02-01-2009, 03:43 PM
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Re: Legality of witholding control system post ship

Here, have some concrete clarification. This is from an old PM of mine with Dave. If he minds me posting it, I'll delete it the moment there's a complaint.

Quote:
No problem. Hey, quick question. From what I see in the rules about the fixit window, if our drive train is >40 lbs, and we ship the CRIO in the crate, theoretically we can keep the drive train and get drive practice. I understand this isn't in the spirit of FIRST, but any insight into this?

Quote:
With the withholding allowance, you can keep 40 pounds of anything from your robot that you want. it doesn't matter if it is the control system, the drive system, the manipulator or whatever. That choice is up to you. If you decide to use your withholding allowance to keep your drive system, there is nothing wrong with that. If anyone tells you that it "isn't in the spirit of FIRST" you can tell them that they just don't get it.


-dave
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Unread 02-01-2009, 03:49 PM
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Re: Legality of witholding control system post ship

Thanks, all! My team was asking the same thing, and I was about to make a new thread until I read this.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 08:08 AM
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Re: Legality of witholding control system post ship

As quoted from the Q & A:

Quote:
Under the Withholding Allowance, the TEAM may bring up to 40 pounds of ROBOT materials to the competition event. These materials may be any combination of FABRICATED ITEMS and ROBOT parts withheld from shipping. This can be any part or subsystem of the ROBOT - including a drive base - as long as it does not exceed the permitted incoming weight allowance specified in Rule <R36>.
So if you want to keep a 'completed' drive base, including electrical and control systems, and bring it with you to the competitions, then it is perfectly legal this year, as long as it is under the 40 pound limit.
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