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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-08-2002, 10:26 PM
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Our "Team Vision" goes something like this:

"To be a place where our students can explore their giftings and talents in a professional environment."

In our minds, if a kid finds out they are gifted in an area and pursues it into a career, we have been successful. We don't care if they suspected they were gifted in that area or not. We have had kids discover unexpected talents in Graphic Arts and Pnuematics and had others further develop known gifts for computer programming.

Finding the place in the world God created you for and choosing to be there, is our definition of success in life. Our team is dedicated to helping our students acheive that end. The professional environment means acting in a professional manner. Respecting others in spite of disagreement and maintaining a unity of purpose. Also working with professionals and doing professional grade work wherever possible.


The beauty of FIRST is that it has so many avenues to explore and they all open off of the same square.
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Unread 11-08-2002, 10:42 PM
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This thread is teeming with replies dealing with material possessions and this troubles me greatly.
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Unread 11-08-2002, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlamminSammy
This thread is teeming with replies dealing with material possessions and this troubles me greatly.
How so?

I've seen much about "free" trips but little about material things. Unless you think the giftings I mentioned were tangilble things, which they are not. I was thinking more of things like the ability to see how a structure must be built to do it's job. Or how to lay out random pictures to create something that conveys a message. These are things that come from the core of one's being and while the products can be bought and sold the gift itself cannot.

These gifts are mental and to some extent spiritual, not material.

Learning new skills is not inherently material either. Though the skills might be marketable enough to sell your proficiency and use the proceeds for material things. But I don't see references to that either.

So please explain your comment, with specific examples of what you mean, for the slow (like myself) among us.
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Unread 11-08-2002, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlamminSammy
This thread is teeming with replies dealing with material possessions and this troubles me greatly.
While not everything deals with possessions, exactly, I understand what you mean. Many of the responses seem deeply rooted in concrete manifestations of some of the questions I posed. . . I'm very interested in learning more, though.

Perhaps it's something you've never had experience with personally, but that doesn't mean your input isn't valued. . . I'd like for this to take a more philosophical turn. . . maybe a bit introspective?

I'm really interested in learning more about this because I am finally realizing how important parts of FIRST have been in my life, and furthermore, I'm noticing that very little of it has to do with the robots themselves. Sure, I'm very grateful to have been given the opportunity to see some of my designs become a reality - and I'm eternally grateful to have learned that engineering really doesn't seem to be for me - but, those are just two minor realizations in the grand plan. I very unabashedly admit how important Walt Disney World has been for me as far as some of my involvement in FIRST is concerned.

But, now, I'm becoming quite interested in how FIRST can influence people in unexpected ways. We've all heard about getting girls excited in science and technology, or giving opportunities to students from low-income areas, or placing students in jobs - but what are the untold stories? Who are we leaving out?

When we make broad generalizations about what FIRST does and who it's for, are we alienating these people and their experiences? I've realized by now that some people aren't as vocal as I am (even though I'm quite timid in person). Are we driving these people away from the program?

I've begun to worry about some of the homogeny that permeates FIRST. Just as economies of scale destroy craftsmanship, and Wal*Mart Supercenters decimate entrepeneurship, I worry that the regimentation of FIRST programs into curriculum-based classes, or varsity sports, or victory driven activities narrows its focus far too much. I worry that the space for the idle dreamer is being down-sized in favor of the yes-men. I worry that there's someone else out there just like me, but that we may gloss over them and their input, ideas, and contributions because we they don't jive with the master plan.

So, because of this, I've grown curious about how we define success. I'm less interested in where we draw the line than I am in why we draw it there; or anywhere, for that matter.

So much about FIRST focuses on the team, and teamwork, and cooperation and mentorship, but have we lost sight of the idea that this is all to benefit the individual? ...so that that they may go out into the world and have the ability to work well with others, but the individuality and self-confidence and purpose to think for themselves, to challenge convention, and to do a better job of inspiring the next generation?

...just some more thoughts...
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Unread 11-08-2002, 11:17 PM
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Personally I dont care if I go to Nationals or not... Im in the program to get inspired in a technical job, which is what FIRST is about. I didnt go my 1st year, wasnt suposed to go last year but went because I kept coming and putting in many hours and our teacher saw my will to be on the team. I now am one of the leaders on our team. I thinking about going into Engineering Teaching cause of the experiences I've had with my team.
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Unread 11-08-2002, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisH

please explain your comment
Do you go to school for the field trips?

Do you go to school because you have to?

Do you go to school and cheer if your classes are cancelled?

Do you go to school in hopes that you will get a higher paying job?

Do you go to school to learn facts?

Answer yes to any of the above and you cannot begin to understand. All I can say and hope you comprehend is that vacations are material. You must dig deeper to find the true meaning of (and path to) success (not only in robotics, but in many other areas of life as well).
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Unread 11-08-2002, 11:59 PM
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A great FIRST guy* once said "These robots are 3-dimensional physical metaphors for what we are actually trying to accomplish.."

I think FIRST is about inspiring, teaching, and developing people in a technological world. And I think if FIRST teaches you that engineering is not your thing, it is just as valuable (and successful) as if it creates new engineers. I think the whole FIRST experience is about learning that there is something more to everything, it's not all cut and dry, it's not all easy, and there are a lot of different angles to take.

As for the people on the sidelines, I think they are important. I think there just is a disparity between posters on what the 'sidelines' mean. I don't mean the kids who join to go to Disney, that's their choice to do their thing and I do not think they should be asked to leave a team (you'll find that once most start showing up and doing work, their motives will change... but this thread isn't to argue this), but I think the 'sidelines' meant the kids that don't necessarily want to be in the pit or doing the engineering but focusing on the other aspect of the robot.

These people are essential in FIRST as they are in any technological business. The researchers in any field find a problem, some engineers solve it, some writers gather info & write manuals, the economists determine marketability, the graphics people have to design the looks & packaging, the artists design the advertisements, etc, etc. You need the whole package to succeed to the best of your abilities.

I think being successful in FIRST is creating an environment where people can grow, learn, change, and recreate... just like we do with our robots. It's about making an environment where kids feel they can be successful... in whatever discipline they choose. The world would be pretty boring if we were all engineers...

I hope my post hasn't been too off base. I just think FIRST is about exposure to science & technology and working on acceptance on the greater scale of things. But like the Chairman's Award description says.. it's about the people.. the individuals behind it. Just like anything in life, you as an individual will take from it only how much you want.. A team in itself is simply a group of individuals who want something more, to learn something, to take something away.. no matter how big or small.

Mike Bastoni (*) said the quote at the beginning on some news interview back when I was a sophomore in high school (whoa.. 6 years ago!) and it has stuck with me ever since as my definition of FIRST.
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Unread 11-09-2002, 03:43 AM
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Learning and Experience is Success

I feel that FIRST is about learning. The entire competition is structured such that it benefits all who are involved. It provides a great opportunity for those involved to learn whatever their heart desires.

There is always something to learn, and there is always something to teach.

Every person involved has something they know, that they can pass on to others, so chances are if there is something you want to learn about, there is someone out there who can teach you.

Success should be defined in terms of how many students have been "touched" by the program. Everyone involved benefits in some way. Even those students who are only in it "for the trip to Disney" will come out of this program better than they were. Does that not constitute a success? Should successes be measured by students who are inspired to go into engineering? What about the students who went through the program and learned that engineering isn't for them, and instead went onto do something else with their lives. Should they be counted as successes? I feel that every single person that goes through the person is a success. There are no "bad experiences" only unpleasant ones. Everyone who experiences this wonderful, amazing program is a success.

In this competition, the sky truly is the limit. Anything is possible. Success is showing this fact to those participating, and letting them know that anything they come up with, anything they dream up can be done. They can learn about almost anything they want.

The sheer magnitude of the opportunity this program represents astounds me. It makes me wish I was a HSer again knowing then what I know now. As a mentor, I try to show the HSers on my team what I know, what I have learned, and encourage them to learn on their own.

This stuff seriously excites me, and I am thankful I have been given the opportunity to experience this. I can't even comprehend the possible benefits involved in this program, and the impact it has had, and will have on my life.

Thank you all for being a part of it!
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Unread 11-09-2002, 08:28 AM
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Very well said, John and Colleen, and others.

Exposure, education, and inspiration… Those are the essential elements when you describe the success of FIRST. You cannot fully understand the whole FIRST experience and its success without knowing what each of what those mean. You can’t inspire people without teaching them a few things in the process, and you can’t educate people about science and technology and other things without exposing them to the application of them. It is hard to tell the whole story really quickly… After all, how do you describe your lesson in Life with just a few sentence?

You know, the amazing thing about FIRST, is that it’s actually fun for people, and it motivate them to do things just because they will have a good time, unlike going to school or doing homework or taking tests. Students actually want to do things because they want to win, or build a cool robot, or make a really good animation… And teachers want to do it because its fun to teach different things, AND you can see the result in a relatively short time.


Depending on each person’s experience and personality, they can be inspired by different things and learn whatever they can in the process. And that’s the key right there. Because EVERYONE is different in their own way, they are able to get different things out of it and do whatever they want to see happening base on their experience. That’s why there are so many different lines drawn out there regarding the success in FIRST, and what FIRST mean to each person… Everyone wants different things.

It is very difficult to draw a general picture of FIRST when every part of the scene is so complicated. Definitely specific parts of the big picture only show a small part of it.


Remember when Dean said, “Everyone here is a winner” every time he made a speech at award ceremony? This is what he is talking about. There are just not enough awards out there to recognize every success and accomplishment.


The success of the FIRST organization, I think, is it’s able to spreading its words and get to so many different people at different part of the country and inspire each of them to start their own program related to Science and Technology, and the world out there.

The Team’s success is they are able to take advantage of this opportunity to expand themselves into programs that continue to spread the full benefit, and inspire, educate, and expose their members about Science and Technology, and the world out there.

The participant’s success is they are able to spend time in their team and the program, and get the most out of them.

Over all, the success of both FIRST and its teams is they are able to take advantage of an environment of a competition, and make a positive difference in people and their path in Life. People learn by doing things, by interacting with other people. People find their path of Life by walking through it. And that’s what FIRST does to people, it give them an experience they will never forget, and its happening at this moment right now.


I can’t help but think that the reason why FIRST’s mission is so simple because they want to give everyone the freedom to create what they want, which is the right way to do it. After all, you shouldn’t tell people how to live their life… You can only show them the paths. Sure, you can say “FIRST should concentrate in inspiring this and teaching that”, but at the end, some people will get inspired by it (science and technology in this case), some other people will benefit from the process and decide to do something else.

I think the way to look at this question, is to understand that the success in this program is to come up with your definition of success, and going through the process to achieve that.
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Unread 11-09-2002, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlamminSammy



Do you go to school to learn facts?

Yes, I do go to school to learn facts. So does everyone. You can't innovate if you don't have the facts on how things work. Sure, you can spit back facts word-for-word but in a lot of classes you can't get by just doing that.
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Unread 11-09-2002, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlamminSammy

Do you go to school to learn facts?
I go to school to learn concepts, ideas, and past and future ways of life.

Everybody already has a big jar of facts; going to school to learn more facts will only make you get a bigger jar. But he who has deeper insight realizes that concepts and ideas cannot be contained in even the largest jar, bucket or box. You cannot touch or see these things, but you can be enhanced with knowledge and experience of them.
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Last edited by sanddrag : 11-09-2002 at 04:54 PM.
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Unread 11-09-2002, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MBiddy


Yes, I do go to school to learn facts. So does everyone. You can't innovate if you don't have the facts on how things work. Sure, you can spit back facts word-for-word but in a lot of classes you can't get by just doing that.
There's a big difference between learning facts and learning ideas. For example, just about everyone knows that the volume of a sphere is given by:

4/3*pi*r^3

But do you know where this equation comes from? If not, how could you ever find the volume of some new geometric shape you didn't have an equation for? The key is comprehension, not just memorization.

I think the same thing applies to FIRST. I really couldn't care less what the torque was on our robot nor do I care about which wires go where. What I care about is why each wire goes where it does and why each gear is where it is.
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Unread 11-09-2002, 04:12 PM
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FIRST is like a big roller coaster, that can only be experianced if one takes a ride which then becomes a liftime experiance.
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Unread 11-09-2002, 04:56 PM
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First to me is about so many things...

Friendship - The friends and friendships you can make through this program are amazing. As for my team, spending all that time in the shop or in the house during "union" break time, you grow close to some of those people, introducing me at least to people I would have never talked to at school. I mean seriously, these people don't judge you for your crazy behavior after spending massive amounts of time with you. (The sophomore boys - yes the 'book' jokes) Then you have the people that you meet from Chiefdelphi or Tigerbolt in my case. Some of these people are so amazing that you know they care. (/me hugs)

Mechinical Work - If it wasn't for first, I know I wouldn't have ever learned how to use a lathe, milling, band saw, cutting torch and so on nor would I have understood how it is to get enough grim on your hands from the work pieces and cleaning and not having the grim come off your hands until days later and not caring about it. The orange cleaning stuff does not get everything off either. Also, FIRST has taught me how to fix things and think outside of the box in order to get parts made.

Teamwork - Being in FIRST makes you understand that everyone on the team needs to pull their weight. When one person or team fails it can affect the team as a whole. *cough*website team*cough* It also is helping when you teach another exactly how to do something and become enthralled in that learning experiance. (however, no one ever becomes as excited about the lathe as I D

FIRST encompasses so many different things...if I were to say
everything that is means to me I would prolly have a book.

Success isn't from winning nationals but from improving as a person or as team. Putting the minds together in order to get the job done is success.
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Unread 11-09-2002, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rbayer


There's a big difference between learning facts and learning ideas.
Closer, but not quite. The key is understanding. You may know how to use triple integration to find volume, but do you know why it works and the the theories behind them (well, you probably do)? While ideas allow facts to spread to additional realms, it is understanding that allows for the creation of facts. Without understanding, there is no growing, no addional knowledge gained. Understanding leads to ideas which, in turn, lead to the facts which make the universe a better place. I challenge everybody to stop using math or physics formulas until they can first prove that it is correct.
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