Go to Post I've done enough preaching to the choir. Let's carry on changing the culture. - StevenB [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Championship Event
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 01:34 PM
Joe Ross's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Joe Ross Joe Ross is offline
Registered User
FRC #0330 (Beachbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,935
Joe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond repute
More then 7 matches?

Bill Miller had a new blog yesterday. http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009...ing-ready.html

Quote:
With luck the number of FRC teams may work out perfectly this year. At the moment we have 348 teams registered to attend. That works out to 87 teams in each division and 29 complete alliances. There will be time for each team to play 7 qualifying rounds on Friday.
The current Agenda shows 440 minutes of matches on Friday, for an average turnaround of 4 minutes 19 seconds. (I'm sure the FTAs and Field Supervisors in the crowd are shuddering thinking about that number). Then there's time on Saturday for another match or two. The only way to realistically get 7 matches on Friday is to start matches when the pits open on friday and finish them at close, with no lunch break.

I can't imagine 7 matches on Friday actually happening, but that's what Bill said.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 01:37 PM
BandChick's Avatar
BandChick BandChick is offline
Superpower: Knows Everyone
AKA: Sara Reffler
FRC #1089 (Team Mercury)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Hightstown, NJ
Posts: 1,887
BandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond reputeBandChick has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to BandChick
Re: More then 7 matches?

4 minute matches is...nuts.
In NJ, NYC, and Philly, 7 minute turnaround was scheduled.
We managed to get it just under 6 by Saturday in Philly, but WOW.

Well, good luck to the queuers, resetters, refs, and the rest of the field crew next weekend!
__________________

Houston userbars are here, Detroit still to come!

1089 Mentor & Alum | 2018 MAR Championship Finalists
2015 Archimedes Champions | 2015 Einstein Semi-Finalists
2014 & 2016 MAR Championship Finalists | 2014 Bridgewater District Finalists | 2013 Lenape District Finalists | 2011 NJ Regional Finalists
2014 & 2015 Excellence in Engineering Award | 2014 Xerox Creativity Award | 2016 & 2017 Innovation in Control Award
2009, 2011, 2013 KCP&B Entrepreneurship Award | 2012 Gracious Professionalism Award | 2009 NJ Regional Chairman's Award

"Success in life is a matter not so much of talent or opportunity as of concentration and perseverance." C.W. Wendte
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 01:40 PM
Greg Peshek Greg Peshek is offline
Registered User
FLL #2054
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 195
Greg Peshek is a name known to allGreg Peshek is a name known to allGreg Peshek is a name known to allGreg Peshek is a name known to allGreg Peshek is a name known to allGreg Peshek is a name known to all
Re: More then 7 matches?

I don't know if it's possible, but the intros for teams usually take about 1:15-1:30 - so theoretically if they cut down on saying the sponsors out load and just introduce the team numbers. They could probably cut it down to 30 seconds. Take that minute off your 6 minute time at Philly and you're down to 5 minutes, go really fast and they may make it to 4:19.

However, whether they will cut down the introductions is another matter. But that's really the only thing that it seems they could cut down.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 01:42 PM
Koko Ed's Avatar
Koko Ed Koko Ed is offline
Serial Volunteer
AKA: Ed Patterson
FRC #0191
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Rochester,NY
Posts: 23,403
Koko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More then 7 matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BandChick View Post
4 minute matches is...nuts.
In NJ, NYC, and Philly, 7 minute turnaround was scheduled.
We managed to get it just under 6 by Saturday in Philly, but WOW.

Well, good luck to the queuers, resetters, refs, and the rest of the field crew next weekend!
I've worked with many crews this year and if there is a bunch who can take the challenge on it's FIRST volunteers.
We'll see if they really mean to try this or if it's just a typo.
__________________
Koko Ed's 2018 FIRST Power Up Tour!
EVENTS: 7 MILES TRAVELED:8,782 miles NEXT EVENT FIRST Robotics World Championships - Houston
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 01:43 PM
TKM.368's Avatar
TKM.368 TKM.368 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Osa
FRC #0368 (Team Kika Mana | Tiger Power!)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 257
TKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond reputeTKM.368 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More then 7 matches?

Hm, since yesterday afternoon there are 349 teams listed.

I wonder if some team dropped out and wasn't removed from the list. Newton now has 88 and the other fields 87 with the addition of Team 687.
__________________
Make a difference - VOLUNTEER!

Last edited by TKM.368 : 04-11-2009 at 01:58 PM.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 01:52 PM
thefro526's Avatar
thefro526 thefro526 is offline
Says Memorable Things
AKA: Dustin Benedict
FRC #5895 (Peddie Robotics & FRC 708 Hatters Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,611
thefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to thefro526 Send a message via MSN to thefro526
Re: More then 7 matches?

I'd LOVE to see more than seven matches. I doubt it'll happen but I'm holding onto hope that it does.

I think they might shave some of the turn around time off by letting teams pre-load their robots while waiting in for the next match (I want to say they did this at MSC but I'm not sure).
__________________
-Dustin Benedict
2005-2012 - Student & Mentor FRC 816
2012-2014 - Technical Mentor, 2014 Drive Coach FRC 341
Current - Technical Mentor, FRC 5895, FRC 708
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 01:52 PM
GoSparx's Avatar
GoSparx GoSparx is offline
Mentor
AKA: Big D
FRC #1126 (SparX)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Webster, New York
Posts: 72
GoSparx is just really niceGoSparx is just really niceGoSparx is just really niceGoSparx is just really niceGoSparx is just really nice
Re: More then 7 matches?

I think Bill may have meant 7 qualification matches TOTAL for Atlanta.
My $.02
__________________
"Winning is an Outcome"
2003-2008 Match record 152-81-1
Trips to Einstein - 2 (04' + 06")

'03, '04, '08 Buckeye Champs, '07 Finalists
'06 Finger Lakes Champs, '08 Finalists
'06 Galileo Division Champs
'04 Newton Division Champs
'08 Buckeye Motorola Quality Award
'07 Buckeye General Motors Industrial Design Award
'06, '07 Finger Lakes Rockwell Automation Innovation in Control Award
'05 Buckeye RadioShack Inovation in Control award
2-2009 J+J Gracious Professionalism Awards(FLR+GTR) & Xerox Creativity Award(GTR)
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 02:01 PM
David Brinza's Avatar
David Brinza David Brinza is offline
Lead Mentor, Lead Robot Inspector
FRC #0980 (ThunderBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 1,388
David Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More then 7 matches?

I'm pretty sure that Bill meant to say that there would be seven qualifying matches for each team on Friday and Saturday.

With 6 minute intervals between 102 matches (which gives each team 7 matches and just three surrogates), we're looking at bit over 10 hours of playing time for the qualification round. The agenda shows almost 10-1/2 hours for FRC qualifying matches on Friday/Saturday combined. Even with this schedule, there's little slack for field issues, referee discussions, etc.

I've seen matches turn around in just over five minutes, but that was on Saturday when the teams and field reset crew were very familiar with the drill. I don't see FIRST expecting to fit in an eight-match per team qualifying round (requiring 116 matches to be played). Banking on less than 5-1/2 minute intervals between matches just doesn't seem prudent.
__________________
"There's never enough time to do it right, but always time to do it over."
2003 AZ: SF, Motorola Quality; SoCal: QF, Xerox Creativity; IRI: QF || 2004 AZ: SF, GM Design; SoCal: Winners, Controls; Champs: Galileo #2 seed, QF; IRI: Champions
2005 AZ: #1 Seed, Xerox Creativity; SoCal: Finals, Controls; SVR: Winners, "Driving Tomorrow's Technologies"; Champs: Archimedes SF; IRI: Finals
2007 LA: Finals; San Diego: QF; CalGames: Finals || 2008 San Diego: QF; LA: Winners; CalGames: Finals || 2009 LA: SF; Las Vegas: QF; IRI: #1 Seed, Finals
2010 AZ: Motorola Quality; LA: Finals || 2011 SD: QF; LA: QF || 2013 LA: Xerox Creativity, WFFA, Dean's List Finals || 2014 IE: QF, LA: Finals, Dean's List Finalist
2016 Ventura: QF, WFFA, Eng Inspiration || 2017 Central Valley: Dean's List Finalist; LA: SF, Entrepreneuer || 2018 LA: Chairman's, WFFA, Finals
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 06:51 PM
Alan Anderson's Avatar
Alan Anderson Alan Anderson is offline
Software Architect
FRC #0045 (TechnoKats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 9,151
Alan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More then 7 matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross View Post
I can't imagine 7 matches on Friday actually happening, but that's what Bill said.
For quite a while now, Bill's Blog has had a reputation in my mind for saying things that don't quite make sense. Bill is certainly in a position of authority, but I don't treat his blog as being authoritatively correct.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 07:33 PM
jgannon's Avatar
jgannon jgannon is offline
I ᐸ3 Robots
AKA: Joey Gannon
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,467
jgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More then 7 matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSparx View Post
I think Bill may have meant 7 qualification matches TOTAL for Atlanta.
That's what we've been doing since at least 2004, and since I don't see any compelling reason to make things more hectic, I agree.

Also, David... seven qualification rounds on Friday would have to mean nine matches total, not eight. Only running one match per team on Saturday (14-15 total matches) would be almost as ridiculous as running seven per team (101-102 total) on Friday.
__________________
Team 1743 - The Short Circuits
2010 Pittsburgh Excellence in Design & Team Spirit Awards
2009 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 222 and 1218)
2007 Pittsburgh Website Award
2006 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 395 and 1038)
2006 Pittsburgh Rookie Inspiration & Highest Rookie Seed

Team 1388 - Eagle Robotics
2005 Sacramento Engineering Inspiration
2004 Curie Division Champions (thanks to 1038 and 175)
2004 Sacramento Rookie All-Star

_

Last edited by jgannon : 04-11-2009 at 07:40 PM.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 09:35 PM
chessking132's Avatar
chessking132 chessking132 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Matthew Simpson
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: New Jersy
Posts: 78
chessking132 is a glorious beacon of lightchessking132 is a glorious beacon of lightchessking132 is a glorious beacon of lightchessking132 is a glorious beacon of lightchessking132 is a glorious beacon of lightchessking132 is a glorious beacon of light
Re: More then 7 matches?

I agree that it would be very hectic but I would enjoy the extra match time. But for only for and a half minutes of pit time i might just stay on the field if the robot does not need repairs.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-11-2009, 10:38 PM
ScottOliveira ScottOliveira is offline
Registered User
FRC #3455 (Carpe Robotum)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 133
ScottOliveira is just really niceScottOliveira is just really niceScottOliveira is just really niceScottOliveira is just really niceScottOliveira is just really nice
Re: More then 7 matches?

It's always nice to have more matches, but it would just be impractical given the scale of the event. They will have trouble finishing all the current matches on time, there is just no spare time. The referees, volunteers, and announcers will all be hard-pressed as it is to get everything done and keep the match turnaround going.

And with matches closer together there's just going to be no time to get any work done should something go wrong with the robot. Especially given the long walks to queues, everything will be beyond hectic as is (as it generally is at championships).
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-12-2009, 06:58 AM
Don Wright's Avatar
Don Wright Don Wright is offline
Registered User
FRC #0469
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 683
Don Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Don Wright Send a message via Yahoo to Don Wright
Re: More then 7 matches?

I don't see why it would be so hard to compress the schedule a little and give all the teams that are spending a lot of money more rounds in Atlanta...

Let's see...

Have inspections available Wed. night so that teams that can make it in early Wed and uncrate can get their robot inspected. Rely on trust that teams are not working on their robot other than just getting it inspected. I bet they could get half the robots inspected on Wed. (since all the robots have been thru inspections at least once, usually more already).

Thursday morning - practice - everyone is scheduled for one double round with a fill in line...

Thursday afternoon - 3 rounds per team
Friday morning - 3 rounds per team
Friday afternoon - 3 rounds per team
Saturday morning - 3 rounds per team

Pick elims...

Sure we might have to come a little earlier, and stay a little later... But this gives everyone 12 rounds... We all are paying a lot of money and time to come to this championship event and I think we all would be willing the extra "sacrifice"...
__________________
Donald F. Wright Jr.
Product Manager
AVL Instrumentation & Test Systems, Inc.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-12-2009, 08:33 AM
ScottOliveira ScottOliveira is offline
Registered User
FRC #3455 (Carpe Robotum)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 133
ScottOliveira is just really niceScottOliveira is just really niceScottOliveira is just really niceScottOliveira is just really niceScottOliveira is just really nice
Re: More then 7 matches?

However, some teams may not be ready for inspection that early. Some may have had damage at the end of previous competitions, or may have improvements they want to make. This rushes them more, and makes it harder for good repairs or changes to be made. Rushed repairs are more likely to come undone and cause trouble in later matches. And taking away practice hurts teams that haven't been to as many regionals, by depriving them of extra actual practice driving time.

Of course it would be great to have more qualifying matches, but short of actually starting the competition on Wednesday, there is no simple way to get them.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-12-2009, 09:17 AM
Don Wright's Avatar
Don Wright Don Wright is offline
Registered User
FRC #0469
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 683
Don Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Don Wright Send a message via Yahoo to Don Wright
Re: More then 7 matches?

Yeah, I can see that. I mean we are never busy on Thursday and are usually just sitting around with nothing to do

However, IMHO, this is the championship event. All robots need to be ready to go, or need to be able to be ready in that Thursday morning...

I saw what a Championship event could be like at the MSC. I am hoping that this is what the World Championship event is like in the future... And to make it event better, give all the qualifying teams more qualifying matches.

Just my opinion...
__________________
Donald F. Wright Jr.
Product Manager
AVL Instrumentation & Test Systems, Inc.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More then 2 team alliance??? Jeremy General Forum 35 09-29-2004 03:28 PM
More flipping then expected cyberknights195 General Forum 6 03-07-2004 02:52 PM
issues with if then else Andrew Rudolph Programming 1 01-15-2003 08:15 AM
More interesting numbers...specific to big-ball matches archiver General Forum 13 06-24-2002 01:51 AM
And then it hit me.... Joe Johnson General Forum 12 02-07-2002 09:29 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:22 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi