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Unread 02-02-2018, 03:06 PM
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What gauge wires for 775pros?

Hi guys!

First time using 775pros, I was wondering what gauge wires do we use for them? Also, is soldering the best way to make connections?
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Unread 02-02-2018, 03:14 PM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

Wire Gauge is dictated by the wiring rules in the manual, relevant chart is attached.

For the 775s you would want 12-10 AWG Because most teams will put them on a 40a breaker, and since you can always oversize wire I would put the maximum size even if you choose a smaller size breaker depending on the load/availability. That way no matter where you put the motor, this year or next year, it'll be legal. (Insert usual disclaimer)

Some other notes on the 775s, make sure to standardize polarity when wiring so they all turn the same way, and make sure to insulate the joints and make sure they are secure. The one downside to the 775pro is the insecurity of the wire mounting. There are some products available that someone else will inevitably link in below that help ensure a strong connection.


Relevant rule regarding wire size is R59, chart is attached.
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Unread 02-08-2018, 02:00 AM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

Soldering is the best way to make connections to the motors, and in fact is really the only way to make connection to the motors. Generally, a good solder job will always be superior to any other kind of slip or crimp connector.

However, our team usually solders to the motor spades, then uses a spade type connector between the end of the motor leads and the run to the motor controller, which either has another spade connector (for Victor SP's) or a screw connector (for Talon SR/SPARK controllers). It lets us easily disconnect things if something needs to get pulled off the bot, and also minimizes cutting/resoldering when we go to reuse the wire and motor.
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Unread 02-08-2018, 04:09 PM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

We're using 10AWG wire with crimp-on connectors. (see link below). The female part of the connectors actually have to be smushed down a bit to get a good hold on the motor tabs.

We tried soldering, but 10AWG wire and the motor have so much thermal mass that we couldn't get a good solder joint. Didn't really want to pull out the butane torch.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...connect+female
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Unread 02-08-2018, 04:21 PM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissArmy4057 View Post
Soldering is the best way to make connections to the motors, and in fact is really the only way to make connection to the motors. Generally, a good solder job will always be superior to any other kind of slip or crimp connector.

However, our team usually solders to the motor spades, then uses a spade type connector between the end of the motor leads and the run to the motor controller, which either has another spade connector (for Victor SP's) or a screw connector (for Talon SR/SPARK controllers). It lets us easily disconnect things if something needs to get pulled off the bot, and also minimizes cutting/resoldering when we go to reuse the wire and motor.
https://www.mcmaster.com/#flag-terminals/=1bhgvpo
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Unread 10-14-2018, 11:59 PM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

I just tried soldering 10 guage wire to a 775 and had no problem
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Unread 10-15-2018, 01:45 AM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesCH95 View Post
I find that these tend to come off easily. 1072 used to use those kinds of crimps for all power connections, and we had many wiring issues partly as a result of that.
The easiest way we have found to solder them is to use the Ozzyboards inline connectors: http://ozzyboards.com/775-inline-powerpole-connector/. They've served us well through several competitions and championships without failure. The powerpole interface is really good for 10/12 awg wires.
If you don't already use powerpole connectors, you should look into them. We've found that they're the most robust connectors, and are very easy to crimp compared to other types of crimps. Polarized with the little sliding thing, and you use can use a thin ziptie to lock them together after plugging in.
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Unread 10-15-2018, 07:03 AM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asid61 View Post
I find that these tend to come off easily. 1072 used to use those kinds of crimps for all power connections, and we had many wiring issues partly as a result of that.
The easiest way we have found to solder them is to use the Ozzyboards inline connectors: http://ozzyboards.com/775-inline-powerpole-connector/. They've served us well through several competitions and championships without failure. The powerpole interface is really good for 10/12 awg wires.
If you don't already use powerpole connectors, you should look into them. We've found that they're the most robust connectors, and are very easy to crimp compared to other types of crimps. Polarized with the little sliding thing, and you use can use a thin ziptie to lock them together after plugging in.
There are actually two types of these. Originally the concept was pioneered by ozzyboards (or at least they were the first to market). Their product works well and they have addressed the issue we had with it by removing the plastic cover.

The alternative is here:
https://www.therobotspace.com/Produc...tCode=trs-775C

This product had it's own issue where the terminals were slightly too large to fit in the openings. That has been completely addressed as well. We use this product from robot space because the ability to orient the leads comes in handy.

I can't count the number of motors that these products save: we've routinely had members lay components down on the motor terminals and snap them off. The terminals don't snap off with these products soldered on.
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Unread 10-15-2018, 07:38 AM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

We use 10-8 gauge wire and solder the connections on and we have never suffered any troubles with motors due to current related issues
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Unread 10-15-2018, 08:55 AM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line View Post
There are actually two types of these. Originally the concept was pioneered by ozzyboards (or at least they were the first to market). Their product works well and they have addressed the issue we had with it by removing the plastic cover.

The alternative is here:
https://www.therobotspace.com/Produc...tCode=trs-775C

This product had it's own issue where the terminals were slightly too large to fit in the openings. That has been completely addressed as well. We use this product from robot space because the ability to orient the leads comes in handy.

I can't count the number of motors that these products save: we've routinely had members lay components down on the motor terminals and snap them off. The terminals don't snap off with these products soldered on.

We put these on ALL of our 775s this past season. Absolute life-savers! Would not use a 775 without these from now on. No other attachment method even comes close.
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Unread 10-15-2018, 09:37 AM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CEF View Post
We're using 10AWG wire with crimp-on connectors. (see link below). The female part of the connectors actually have to be smushed down a bit to get a good hold on the motor tabs.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...connect+female
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesCH95 View Post
The correct size is the ones for the 0.187" wide tab. Unfortunately, I have never seen any for that tab size that work for wires as large as 12 AWG or 10 AWG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CEF View Post
...We tried soldering, but 10AWG wire and the motor have so much thermal mass that we couldn't get a good solder joint. Didn't really want to pull out the butane torch.
You need to use a really high wattage iron with a large, wide tip that has a lot of thermal mass. Otherwise, with wire as big as 12 AWG and 10 AWG, you can't get the wire hot enough for the solder to melt and flow properly but you do get it hot enough to melt and ruin the insulation on the wire or the plastic end cap of the motor. Practice on scrap pieces of wire before ruining your motors.
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Unread 10-15-2018, 10:10 AM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbale2000 View Post
We put these on ALL of our 775s this past season. Absolute life-savers! Would not use a 775 without these from now on. No other attachment method even comes close.
Same here! They are a great way to control the wires and are much more secure than the usual connectors, and take up less space.
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Unread 10-16-2018, 12:05 PM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

I am curious about either the Ozzyboard or TheRobotSpace product.
What weight of copper plate do they use on these products?
The thicker the plate the narrower the allowable board trace.

Just eye-balling, but I would think that the trace width for these products is on the order of 12.5 mm at most ... 1/2 inch. Perhaps I can get there by including both sides of the loop? Am I close?

If I assume that we need direct equivalent to the conductor required per FRC rules, consider the copper area provided by the pcb.
Most houses produce boards using 1 oz copper. To have an equivalent copper area to a 12 AWG conductor, I believe that this would require a trace width of 187 mm. (2 oz. => 93.8 mm, and 4 oz. => 46.9 mm). Inserting the board between discrete wiring and the motor is equivalent to inserting a short length of 18 AWG wire.

So, were there any questions asked at inspection?

Common practice for PCB designs is to allow for a 10 degree C rise. Under this condition, 1 oz. copper requires a trace width of 48.7mm (2 oz => 24.34mm, and 4 oz. => 12.17 mm).

Assuming that they use 4 oz. copper the dimensions might work.
Any comments?
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Unread 10-16-2018, 12:10 PM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

We currently solder 12 gauge wire to the tabs on the 775s. We've used 10 gauge in the past but it's a little more annoying and most systems we overpower it (2 motors where we only need 1) so the amperage isnt that large. We will most likely try the connector from RobotSpace this season to save some time and make the back of our motor a little cleaner, a long with easier to swap motors out.
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Unread 10-16-2018, 12:57 PM
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Re: What gauge wires for 775pros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phargo#1018 View Post
I am curious about either the Ozzyboard or TheRobotSpace product.
What weight of copper plate do they use on these products?
The thicker the plate the narrower the allowable board trace.

Just eye-balling, but I would think that the trace width for these products is on the order of 12.5 mm at most ... 1/2 inch. Perhaps I can get there by including both sides of the loop? Am I close?

If I assume that we need direct equivalent to the conductor required per FRC rules, consider the copper area provided by the pcb.
Most houses produce boards using 1 oz copper. To have an equivalent copper area to a 12 AWG conductor, I believe that this would require a trace width of 187 mm. (2 oz. => 93.8 mm, and 4 oz. => 46.9 mm). Inserting the board between discrete wiring and the motor is equivalent to inserting a short length of 18 AWG wire.

So, were there any questions asked at inspection?

Common practice for PCB designs is to allow for a 10 degree C rise. Under this condition, 1 oz. copper requires a trace width of 48.7mm (2 oz => 24.34mm, and 4 oz. => 12.17 mm).

Assuming that they use 4 oz. copper the dimensions might work.
Any comments?
+1 using the eye-ball method.

Using the "conductor thickness and width" chart, you can't get there from here, that is you can't draw 40+ amps continuously without having a heat problem. There is also the issue that these traces are seeing over double that current at times. The "get out of jail" card is that these currents are intermittent so the chance of fire is low. You could argue a performance degradation but the degradation would probably go unnoticed.

I'm curious what the actual PCB construction is. (2 sided 2oz., multi layer 1oz., etc.?)
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Last edited by Mark Wasserman : 10-16-2018 at 01:14 PM. Reason: clarified degradation sentence
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