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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-11-2012, 12:48 PM
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New year, new team
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Re: No Team Should have to Resort to a D-bot (and how to avoid doing so)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill View Post
Offense wins games, but defense wins championships.
But a Brave Little Toaster (like the Kitbot with no further work except to make it legal) is not necessarilythe most effective defensive robot. Sure, it's got 6 weeks of driving... but not anything to set it apart defensively.
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Unread 01-11-2012, 01:10 PM
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Re: No Team Should have to Resort to a D-bot (and how to avoid doing so)

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Originally Posted by eagle33199 View Post
This is similar to Breakaway... starvation/control!
I agree, in past years most of the "defensive" robots were ones that were broken in some way and in the final matches no alliance in the regonal i was at choose a "defensive" robot as an alliance partner.

However, the best alliances were made up of 3 scoring robots, but two of which were obviously able to rack up better points, and then the third would defend not by pinning the enemy, but by using its scoring mechanism to get balls downrange and away from the enemy.

I imagine that this game will be very similar
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Unread 01-11-2012, 01:21 PM
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Re: No Team Should have to Resort to a D-bot (and how to avoid doing so)

one thing i have not liked about the past two games is that KOP robots can't score... overdrive they could drive for points, lunacy they ran away from other robots and pushed balls into the human player stations, breakaway they could score in the goals by pushing balls in... last year and this year they can only play defense.
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Unread 01-11-2012, 01:23 PM
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Re: No Team Should have to Resort to a D-bot (and how to avoid doing so)

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Originally Posted by Chexposito View Post
one thing i have not liked about the past two games is that KOP robots can't score... overdrive they could drive for points, lunacy they ran away from other robots and pushed balls into the human player stations, breakaway they could score in the goals by pushing balls in... last year and this year they can only play defense.
This year, they're worth between 10 and 40 points apiece. Depending, of course, on how many of them are crammed onto a balanced bridge and which round of competition you're talking about.
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Unread 01-11-2012, 05:19 PM
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Re: No Team Should have to Resort to a D-bot (and how to avoid doing so)

I've always split robots into three categories, instead of the traditional two:
Offense - Tries to score points Defense - Tries to be a nusiance on the field inhibiting the other team from scoring
Utility - These are the bots that have some special feature that makes them valuable regardless of their other capabilities (Las Gurrillas 2010 is sorta the prime example of this)

Playing good defense is very hard, and to do it notably you either have to build in utility elements, or be very very good at messing up other players by some special means (possibly very powerful pushing while being mobile). General kitbots need to find some way of being special other than pushing people. As has been said a billion times already: anyone can do that.
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Unread 01-11-2012, 05:36 PM
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Re: No Team Should have to Resort to a D-bot (and how to avoid doing so)

Defense is unique for this game:

A D-Bot can push offense bot almost everywhere, even within the area under the hoop. That is going to change how many bots score

Unlike last year's game, since there is a bump in the middle of the arena, d-bot is pretty much limited to be on one side. I can't imagine some d-bot trying to go both ways.
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Unread 01-11-2012, 10:14 PM
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Re: No Team Should have to Resort to a D-bot (and how to avoid doing so)

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Originally Posted by EricH View Post
This year, they're worth between 10 and 40 points apiece. Depending, of course, on how many of them are crammed onto a balanced bridge and which round of competition you're talking about.
i was going for the main time of the game, but you do have a point.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 09:59 PM
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Re: No Team Should have to Resort to a D-bot (and how to avoid doing so)

If a team wants to build for defense, then good for them.

But if a team builds for defense because they think they can't do anything else... well, those are the folks I'm addressing.

Sorry to revive this after it died a little.

Also, for those who hate games where kitbots can't score: Is it really that bad to ask a team to be able to do more than just drive? It's like asking a student to do more than just show up to class...
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Unread 01-13-2012, 02:21 PM
Ian Curtis Ian Curtis is offline
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Re: No Team Should have to Resort to a D-bot (and how to avoid doing so)

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Originally Posted by Katie_UPS View Post
Also, for those who hate games where kitbots can't score: Is it really that bad to ask a team to be able to do more than just drive? It's like asking a student to do more than just show up to class...
No, it isn't a bad thing to ask. I think in a lot of cases it is like asking a high school freshman to solve an AP Calculus BC free response question though. I've never seen hard numbers, but it has always been my impression that most FRC teams do not have a lot of technical support. Building things that work well repeatedly is hard, that's why we send engineers to school for four years and dump work on them. This still doesn't really make you an engineer, it gives you a background so you don't make a fool of yourself on your first day of work. (At least, this has been my experience)

Even if you have engineers (or mechanics/tinkerers), if they haven't done FRC before 6 weeks means you have a TON to learn in a very short amount of time. In my experience, teams that show up with a kitbot or a kitbot and a basic manipulator have often done a lot more than a student who just shows up to class and does the bare minimum, they just often don't have the tools to do more -- yet.
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