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Unread 09-24-2001, 10:53 AM
Jessica Boucher Jessica Boucher is offline
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Making heads or tails of the new announcement...

This morning, after I got home from work, rushed home to the dorm to see if the registration was up (I thought it was today, not the 26th).

Instead, I found something I wish I hadnt.

I know it was inevitable, but still....that doesnt make it hurt less to see.

I guess thats all I have to say.
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Unread 09-24-2001, 11:27 AM
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I guess this is what you mean.

I'm not sure what to think now, except that my team will probably not be going to nationals.
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Unread 09-24-2001, 11:29 AM
jyax82 jyax82 is offline
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I agree.

Last edited by Brandon Martus : 09-24-2001 at 11:33 AM.
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Unread 09-24-2001, 03:11 PM
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The one thing I haven't seen mentioned(here)...

Just one thing that I noticed hadn't been brought up here yet...

FIRST seems to be easing us into the idea that not everybody is going to be going to nationals...there's 12 ways to be guaranteed a slot, and that's not counting the first-come, first-served for the even numbered teams(this year)...not counting the "point system" method of getting a spot, 173 slots(max) are pre-assigned. But the questions remain, how many of the 28 teams the first year still are competing? How many of the teams will fall under more than one category?(ex. chairman's award finalists) While I'll readily admit that I'm not the biggest fan of having to "qualify" for nationals(as anyone who has been watching my previous posts on the subject here well knows,) I have to admit that the way FIRST has gone about it for this year seems a lot better than the many other ways that they could have handled it...
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Unread 09-24-2001, 03:19 PM
Kyle Fenton Kyle Fenton is offline
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This is bull

I heard rummors of this kind of policy floating around. And they say that this is fair?

Come on.

Team that have won, just to win again. You could have had a suckie Regional, jeopardize you going to nationals. Plus how are you going to tell if you won awards.

Come on, plus you don't know if you are going to Florida until the very end, that will mean more expensive plane tickets and last minute plans. That could teams not to go down to Florida. Plus this means people who are lucky, can attend multiple regionals and increase there chances of getting down their.

This policy will not stand, and I know it, when people come out and complain. It should go back to the way it always was, first come first serve, at least we will know in advance instead of this stupid 5 points system.

Look I am not dissing FIRST or anything..

but come on, it will really let a lot of people down.

But the main thing that if you do make it, it will be too late for you to do anything about it. At least with first come first serve, you can at least know what is going to happen, so you can plan around it.

Also, it said in the FAQ that they were shotting for 288 teams, that is almost a hundred less before. What has happened here? That is about the same size as the 99 national. That is a significant reduction. I was hopping that they shoot for 400 teams. And I can see that happen, but 288, that is very sad.

Last edited by Kyle Fenton : 09-24-2001 at 03:30 PM.
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Unread 09-24-2001, 03:30 PM
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I think the thing that is going to hurt the program the most is the rookies. I don't mean to take a shot at FIRST or anything, but I think we're going to see a lot of this season's rookies drop out.
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Unread 09-24-2001, 03:59 PM
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I knew FIRST would eventually move to qualification to get to Nationals (excuse me, it's now known as the Championship according to FIRST), but I didn't expect changes this big for this year. I thought the big changes would come next year (2003). If you've read my previous posts, you'd know I'm in favor of limiting Nats (I can't get used to calling it the Championship) in order to bring the excitement back. But regardless, I was shocked to see the announcement.

I won't get into any debating about the changes yet, I'll save it for another day. But I'm pretty sure the changes are here for good, FIRST is not going to go back to the old system.

My personal reading into the announcement is they want people to attend regionals and are turning Nationals into a tournament for the top contenders. Thus the name change to the Championship.

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Unread 09-24-2001, 04:19 PM
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So apparently it hangs......
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Question

When they say 28 original teams, does it have to be school and sponser, or just school........and also if your team won the chairmans award then changed sponsor ship does it still count?
any one know?


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Unread 09-24-2001, 04:43 PM
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Unhappy It have to happen sometime

Well, I hope people find the reasons FIRST provided reasonable...

It is something that had to be done, in my opinion, when the bads outweights the goods if nothing is done.

Cheer up, everyone. The odd/even qualification gives teams a chance to go at least once every two year. And teams with good competition records and chairman awards will be present at National, which mean there will still be tough competition...

But you are right, there won't every teams around the country in the pit area anymore.... However, looking at the amount of time it take to really walk through that kind of pit area and really meet those other teams, it's going to take more than 5 days if FIRST keep the growth rate from last year.

I know this isn't the time to say this, but I am going to say it anyway... FIRST learning experience isn't just about going to National, it's also the 6 weeks of hardwork you put into the robot, the rest of the year trying to prepare the team for competition, regional competitions, and/or promoting FIRST through out your community.

If you really want to meet other people, I suggest you go to another regional far away if you don't think you will be going to Nats that year. Meet those others through a much smaller competition and really get to know them. There is something different about regionals that Nats can't compare to, the sense of family and bonding between teams that are close to each other. And then, when you are prepared or when your year number comes, go to Nats and take a look at how FIRST have changed all those young people around the country...

Even though FIRST cap the size of teams going to National, they will never cap the amount of volunteers and spectators going. Therefore some of you can still go if you decide to observe the competitions and awards ceremony, or even just plain old volunteering...
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Unread 09-24-2001, 04:47 PM
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5 points?

to make sure i'm understanding this correctly, if you accumulate 5 points, you are able to attend the Nationals? (sorry, Championship?)
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Unread 09-24-2001, 05:02 PM
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Re: 5 points?

Quote:
Originally posted by David Kelly
to make sure i'm understanding this correctly, if you accumulate 5 points, you are able to attend the Nationals? (sorry, Championship?)
Yes. Since 234 won MWR last year, you've got 3 points, then add in all the awards you got for your control system (which I believe is a 'Judged Award'), your team qualifies.

Mike
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Unread 09-24-2001, 05:13 PM
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Re: 5 points?

Quote:
Originally posted by David Kelly
to make sure i'm understanding this correctly, if you accumulate 5 points, you are able to attend the Nationals? (sorry, Championship?)
I think your tense is off. If you ACCUMULATED 5 points (in the 2001 season), you are eligible to attend the 2002 Championship. As I read it, CyberBlue is qualified to attend the 2002 championship with 3 points from a regional championship, 2 points from a Driving Tomorrow's Technology award, and two more points for a special Judges' award.

I played around a little bit at the end of the day to try and figure out how many teams from 2001 are already qualified for 2002. I get about 65 teams with 5 or more points. I will not post the list because I'm not sure if I interpreted everything correctly (ie - do Division Champions from Nationals get 3 pts?).

Overall, I think that this is the right move. I wouldn't want to qualify for nationals on April 4th and then try to make arrangements to get there though. Hopefully FIRST/Disney will come up with a way to help out these teams.
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Unread 09-24-2001, 05:15 PM
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Based on this point system, my team has no points. Yeah, we pretty much stink in terms of winning anything. I never knew winning meant so much to FIRST..makes you really wonder if FIRST's focus has shifted to something besides teaching kids to love music, science, and engineering..

~Angela who has a sinking feeling that SPAM will not be appearing at nats, though she vowes to go anyway (living two hours from nats has that advantage)
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Unread 09-24-2001, 05:19 PM
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Re: This is bull

This is a problem where the solution can't possibly be fair to everyone out there. It will be nice if we live in a perfect world, but the fact is that we don't.

About winners just to win again, those winners should be given a chance to try to win again, or else there's going to be speculation about "if that team have gone to Nats, they would've win the championship", that sort of thing. The best teams should be allowed to prove that they are the best.

And looking at next year's probably going to be back to Head to head, I am pretty sure the best teams will be able to climb onto the top... Sure teams can go to different regionals, but there probably won't be a lot of time to modify their robot or anything like that to help them improve dramatically.

You have to understand that FIRST's success shouldn't be based on how many teams win awards or competition. It's the experience that counts.

With next year's schedule, there are going to be three weeks between regionals and florida. The first 10 regionals will have more than a month to plan their traveling. As for the other 7 regionals, which is about 56 teams going to Nats, it's true that it won't be as fair for them... But given enough planning I am sure regionals will be able to reserve flights to Nats just for the teams who qualify, so whoever ended up going will be able to take tose reserves without paying more.

I admit FIRST can lossen up a little bit and expand the list somewhat bigger for the teams that can't quite be the winner of regionals but always just right below that position... But, I am not going to complain to FIRST and demand them to remove this rule.
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Unread 09-24-2001, 05:23 PM
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Question which brings up another question...

All these discussion start surround a point of discussion: What's the point of having a national?

I am going to avoid driving this thread off topic, so please go back to the General Forum and start the discussion in the new thread: "What's the point of having a national?"
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