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Unread 03-20-2017, 05:12 PM
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
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pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

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Unread 03-20-2017, 05:13 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

What is a "2+2" drive system?
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Unread 03-20-2017, 05:15 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

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Originally Posted by josesantos View Post
What is a "2+2" drive system?
Two omnis, two traction. 971 has one this year.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 05:21 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

Can we call parallel omnis "Asteroid Drive" ?
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Unread 03-20-2017, 06:04 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

I'm not sure how your defining power. I'd argue that it's pretty independent from drive train type (except if your accounting for efficiency losses).
For example, you have 2+2 listed as low power. Our 2014 bot had 6 CIMs, which most would argue is plenty (or more) power than you need.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 06:21 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

I confess, I'm not at all a fan of 2+2. The turning center is nowhere near the center of the robot, which makes maneuvering very strange. It also has a nasty tendency to fishtail. Calling it "more mobile" than a standard 6wd is...a bit of a stretch.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 06:28 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

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Originally Posted by Dillon Carey View Post
I'm not sure how your defining power. I'd argue that it's pretty independent from drive train type (except if your accounting for efficiency losses).
For example, you have 2+2 listed as low power. Our 2014 bot had 6 CIMs, which most would argue is plenty (or more) power than you need.
Not sure but I am guessing something like pushing power. All other factors equal. Maybe
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Unread 03-20-2017, 06:30 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

KoP drive gets dinged on complexity? That thing can get done in a couple of days if not within a few hours. Have any Kitbots really broken yet?
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Unread 03-20-2017, 06:34 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

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Originally Posted by Michael Hill View Post
KoP drive gets dinged on complexity?
The KOP is the baseline I think

That thing can get done in a couple of days if not within a few hours. Have any Kitbots really broken yet?
I doubt it they are extremely tough
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Unread 03-20-2017, 06:37 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

I like this - it's a nice visual guide for those who would be confused by a weighted cost/benefit table.

My only question is what examples did you use as a baseline for this? Of course it's subjective, so this is all based on a team ability/skillset/resource capability that you had in mind, so it would be interesting to have that information on the graphic for context.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 06:47 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill View Post
KoP drive gets dinged on complexity? That thing can get done in a couple of days if not within a few hours. Have any Kitbots really broken yet?
I think you're reading it wrong. KoP isn't getting dinged on anything.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 07:17 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

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Originally Posted by snoman View Post
Not sure but I am guessing something like pushing power. All other factors equal. Maybe
In terms of pushing power take a look at the matches I've posted below:
https://youtu.be/i9-eH3Iym38
https://youtu.be/imPp9DMwEOg?t=42s

A 2+2 can have pushing power.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 07:23 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblarg View Post
I confess, I'm not at all a fan of 2+2. The turning center is nowhere near the center of the robot, which makes maneuvering very strange. It also has a nasty tendency to fishtail. Calling it "more mobile" than a standard 6wd is...a bit of a stretch.
OTOH, if you do it right, you can use that fishtailing to maneuver around one end of the robot, all the time, which might be important if you are trying to maneuver a tall, unstable stack of 5 totes +1 can around. If your traction wheels are around the stack, it simply spins...

It can be done.

There's also the 2x2 which would be putting omnis on opposite corners paired with tractions on opposite corners.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 07:27 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroedes23 View Post
In terms of pushing power take a look at the matches I've posted below:
https://youtu.be/i9-eH3Iym38
https://youtu.be/imPp9DMwEOg?t=42s

A 2+2 can have pushing power.
+1 to this. 1625's 2014 drivebase was one of 1058's inspirations for going 2+2 this year and we absolutely love it, a great blend of speed and pushing power. Spinning around the traction wheel side is actually an upside, if you get T-boned or hit from the traction wheel side spinning out of the pin is very easy, moreso than a standard 6WD.
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Unread 03-20-2017, 07:42 PM
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Re: pic: Subjective Eval of Common Drive Systems

This is nice for those who wouldn't understand a weighted cost-benefit table. However, I don't believe it's a very good substitute for it at all.

First off, it lacks granularity and makes certain drivetrain types seem better than others from a numerical standpoint when they really aren't. Parallel Omnis seems like a great choice for a drivetrain on paper, better than tank drive (hint: it really isn't. I like different drivetrain designs, but go with a 2 x 2 or butterfly or something if you want better turning).

Speaking of tank drive, KOP isn't really the baseline you want it to be. Any decent custom tank drive is more reliable than the KOP chassis, has more pushing power, and more mobility.

To properly explain drivetrain design, it's best to come up with a long-winded post on why tank drive is the best and you should never use anything but tank drive (that's not really what I believe, but it'll go over well on CD). Explain that every single drivetrain other than tank will break down by the end of every match or be so complex that you wouldn't get done with it by the end of build season (again, sarcasm intended, but this is how CD feels).

Seriously though, best way to explain drivetrains is to justify your claims.
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