Rule about being in the key

[Brandon_L]

We know that if you are in the key no other robot can interfere with you but we wanted to know if it means just any part of your robot or the whole robot has to be in the key

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Brandon_L

We know that if you are in the key no other robot can interfere with you but we wanted to know if it means just any part of your robot or the whole robot has to be in the key

Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.
Violation: Foul; Technical-Foul for purposeful, consequential contact.

Emphasis mine.

[Brandon_L]

Originally Posted by Cory

Emphasis mine.

Were aware of that, but is it while your ENTIRE robot is in the key, or just some part?

[steelerborn]

It says "contact" with the key so as long as the bot is touching the key they are protected from being hit.

Any part of the bot.

[gurellia53]

I could see refs calling it if the shooting robot is over the key but a wheel/appendage is not physically touching the ground inside the key. You may want a clarification from a ref or might be covered in drivers' meeting.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Brandon_L

Were aware of that, but is it while your ENTIRE robot is in the key, or just some part?

Brandon, by the letter of the rule, while some part of your robot is touching the key, you are protected from contact from your opponents.

There isn't really any grey area on this one - touch the key with a wheel, a bridge manip, an appendage, a ziptie, etc, and you're protected.

________

Originally Posted by gurellia53

I could see refs calling it if the shooting robot is over the key but a wheel/appendage is not physically touching the ground inside the key. You may want a clarification from a ref or might be covered in drivers' meeting.

IMO, if the GDC intended for this rule to be interpreted this way, they would've said something like: "
Robots may not touch an opponent Robot breaking the vertical plane defined by the edges of it's Key, Alley, or Bridge." That's just my interpretation based on how the GDC seems to write rules, though as you may know, they can change over night.

[Kevin Sevcik]

This rule is pretty much identical to a rule from Triple Play. You had to physically touch the protected area then, so you're going to have to physically touch the protected area now. I recommend a few zipties hanging down from the edges of your robot. If the refs see something like that on your robot then they'll start assuming you're in contact with the key once the edge of your robot goes over it.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by gurellia53

I could see refs calling it if the shooting robot is over the key but a wheel/appendage is not physically touching the ground inside the key. You may want a clarification from a ref or might be covered in drivers' meeting.

As Kevin mentioned, zip-ties! Or anything else "dangling" beneath your robot's corners to help ensure contact.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

This rule is pretty much identical to a rule from Triple Play. You had to physically touch the protected area then, so you're going to have to physically touch the protected area now. I recommend a few zipties hanging down from the edges of your robot. If the refs see something like that on your robot then they'll start assuming you're in contact with the key once the edge of your robot goes over it.

Better hope they can't reverse direction and end up outside your frame perimeter-you'll have more than one appendage deployed

[smclean1969]

so a good strategy is to hang out by the key and then bump into an opponent's robot as they go by. they get the penalty--easy way to score some points.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by smclean1969

so a good strategy is to hang out by the key and then bump into an opponent's robot as they go by. they get the penalty--easy way to score some points.

*cough*

[G28]Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.
Violation: Foul; Technical-Foul for purposeful, consequential contact.
[G44] Generally, a rule violation by an Alliance that was directly caused by actions of the opposing Alliance will not be penalized. Rule [G28] is an exception to this rule.
[G45] Strategies exploiting Rule [G44] are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not allowed.
Violation: Technical-Foul and Red Card

More like an easy way to score some red cards, amirite?

Yeah, if you do this, they're going to red card you on about the third or fourth "accidental" bump. And the second bump in subsequent matches.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

*cough*
More like an easy way to score some red cards, amirite?

Yeah, if you do this, they're going to red card you on about the third or fourth "accidental" bump. And the second bump in subsequent matches.

It's debatable how G44/G45 will be enforced. Personally, I would think that simply bumping an opponent as it goes by is legitimate, and would call a penalty on the opponent; I think that's what G44 was meant for, and that G45 should only apply to strategies such as pushing an opponent across the field to a G28 zone. But I'm not a referee (again... ) so who knows...

[EricH]

Originally Posted by bduddy

It's debatable how G44/G45 will be enforced. Personally, I would think that simply bumping an opponent as it goes by is legitimate, and would call a penalty on the opponent; I think that's what G44 was meant for, and that G45 should only apply to strategies such as pushing an opponent across the field to a G28 zone. But I'm not a referee (again... ) so who knows...

It's a strategy meant to get points from someone else's [G28]. Or rather, a strategy where they put themselves in a position where you could inflict a [G28]. If you're bumping them sort of like an indication that "I'm here, and you're too close", and you only do it once or twice a match, you're probably OK, IMO. If you're doing it 5, 6, 7 times, especially if you're being aggressive about it, then you should expect to be T-fouled and carded.

Think about it like if you're playing Ultimate, and you think someone's too close to you while you have the Frisbee. So you swing your arm out to the appropriate distance, and if it hits them, they have to back up. But if you did that too often, you're holding up the game...

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Cory

Better hope they can't reverse direction and end up outside your frame perimeter-you'll have more than one appendage deployed

See, that's why you inset them a little and trim them to barely long enough to touch the floor. And then assume the refs give you the benefit of the doubt that they're touching. If I have spare time at regionals, I'm probably going to wander around with a bag of zipties and flush cutters and make everyone's lives easier and less stressful.


Also, you forgot that if they extend below the bottom of your wheels at any moment, they're the new bottom of your robot and your bumpers might suddenly be out of the bumper zone.

[Brandon_L]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Brandon, by the letter of the rule, while some part of your robot is touching the key, you are protected from contact from your opponents.

There isn't really any grey area on this one - touch the key with a wheel, a bridge manip, an appendage, a ziptie, etc, and you're protected.

Thanksbro. The kids were wondering and apparently couldn't find it in the manual, and I usually leave my account open for them, so that was them haha.

Thanks everyone!