Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud

[Gray Adams]

Originally Posted by RoboMom

Based on this post, I sat down with the green shirts for a few minutes at breakfast first thing on Thurs, made this suggestion using Alan's title of 'vanguards" and asked them to spread the word.

I still heard "robot" throughout the 3 days, but it sure seemed like I heard it a lot less.

Thanks!

I only heard it a few times myself. When I went to visit the Sacramento regional, it was painful to hear everyone yelling robot (though the aisles did seem smaller and more prone to being blocked).

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by reymac

What is a good number of students to bring into the pits? We are wanting to cap it to 13.

how many people can you fit inside your 10x10 pit, with a robot, table, and tools, and still be able to work safely? The pit can get badly crowded, and I've never seen a team able to fit 13 people around 1 robot at the same time! If you have people who are sitting there doing nothing, send them into the stands. If you have so many people you're overflowing into the isle, send some into the stands.

Then again, if you have enough people to do all your scouting, compose the drive team, make repairs to the root and still have some left over... send them around to help out struggling teams! Have them go talk with the Rookies and see if they need help or fill them in on how the competition goes. Help those rookies with scouting so they know how to do it. Help them get to a point where they can pass inspection.

We have the drive team (4 people) whenever they aren't driving, and 3-4 others who are responsible for fixing anything that breaks and talking with judges. Add 1-2 mentors and we're under 10 people total... and the drive team doesn't actually spend much time inside our pit - they're off talking with their next alliance, or in the stands talking with our scouters.

There are special occasions when we bring more of the team down to the pit, though - being the only all girls teams at the regionals we attend leads to some face time with different VIP's, and when we know ahead of time they're coming over, we can bring down additional members for the experience.

[Fe_Will]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

how many people can you fit inside your 10x10 pit, with a robot, table, and tools, and still be able to work safely? The pit can get badly crowded, and I've never seen a team able to fit 13 people around 1 robot at the same time!

I suppose it depends on how effectively your team utilizes the space. Between our robot and our storage we use approximately 29% of our floor space. This is with bumpers on our robot and 160 cubic feet of storage space. We have had thirteen people in the pit working on several occasions and at times had over sixteen before. Perhaps teams should invest in how they utilize the space provided instead of heaping 'material' in their pit?

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Fe_Will

I suppose it depends on how effectively your team utilizes the space. Between our robot and our storage we use approximately 29% of our floor space. This is with bumpers on our robot and 160 cubic feet of storage space. We have had thirteen people in the pit working on several occasions and at times had over sixteen before. Perhaps teams should invest in how they utilize the space provided instead of heaping 'material' in their pit?

That seems like a remarkably small space to fit a robot, worktable, storage, battery station, driver console, and chairman's displays/materials in. Could you elaborate on exactly how you guys fit so much into that space and help the rest of us out?

[Fe_Will]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

That seems like a remarkably small space to fit a robot, worktable, storage, battery station, driver console, and chairman's displays/materials in. Could you elaborate on exactly how you guys fit so much into that space and help the rest of us out?

This was version #1 from last season. Version #2 this year is much more efficient.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by Fe_Will

This was version #1 from last season. Version #2 this year is much more efficient.

It's broken

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Fe_Will

This was version #1 from last season. Version #2 this year is much more efficient.

Your dropbox hates hotlinking. I'll attach your picture to this post for clarity.

If that's representative of your claim that you only use 29% of your pit for storage and robot, then I'm skeptical. If that's a 10' x 10' pit and those square on the corners are 18" squares, then it sure looks like you're already using nearly 30% of your pit space without a robot in there. And a robot with bumpers is going to take up about 10% of your pit space as it is. Basically, I'm skeptical of your claim that you can have 13-16 people fully contained in your pit and working productively on a robot.

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

If that's representative of your claim that you only use 29% of your pit for storage and robot, then I'm skeptical.

Perhaps he's talking about using 29% of the volume of the pit, not the floor area. Perhaps also the 13 students are stacked vertically in pairs to use the full 10' height.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Your dropbox hates hotlinking. I'll attach your picture to this post for clarity.

If that's representative of your claim that you only use 29% of your pit for storage and robot, then I'm skeptical. If that's a 10' x 10' pit and those square on the corners are 18" squares, then it sure looks like you're already using nearly 30% of your pit space without a robot in there. And a robot with bumpers is going to take up about 10% of your pit space as it is. Basically, I'm skeptical of your claim that you can have 13-16 people fully contained in your pit and working productively on a robot.

It is impossible. Assume that the average person takes up 1 square foot of space that leaves 5 square feet of non-human existence and you can barely fit a robot much less tools, the table, and have room to work (because 1 square foot is just standing room not moving around and actually working).

What I really can't stand is when people put so much in their pit for display, storage, and "cool factor" that the team members have to stand outside of their pit to work or have the robot sticking out the front.

There is no reason why a team would need more than 7 people in their pit. (4 drive team and 3 pit crew). If you trained your members properly there would be no need to have a judging reps because you pit and drive team should know your team inside and out.

If teams stayed on top of how many people they had in their pit area and the spill out effect that happens into the aisle. The pits would be a much safer, happier, quieter, and nice place to be for guests and sponsors.

[Andy A.]

Originally Posted by Meredith Novak

May I add another?

Yelling "ROBOT!" does not make it okay to run over someone escorting a group of VIPs who may not know to leap out of your way instantly. (And exactly why should they?)

Not only that, but everyone is always yelling robot. You'll hear it a thousand times a day if you're in the pits. Everyone gets desensitized to it to some degree, and shouting it louder doesn't help.

Call out 'Robot', sure, but if someone isn't 'hearing it', give them a gentle tap on the shoulder. They've probably heard you but don't realize they are in your way.

[littlejimmy1058]

I think yelling Robot coming through is fine. If someone doesn't hear you, tap their shoulder. Disagreements?

[AcesJames]

Maybe it's just me, but I've seen quite a few people outright ignore those who shout "robot", simply out of spite for the fact that it's shouted too loudly, and too frequently. I have also noticed that politely saying, "Robot coming through, excuse us", goes a very long way.

People in the pits hear loud noises all day. They're bombarded by power tool noises, queue people ordering them to the field, music from the field, cheering from the stands, etc. The last thing they want to hear is the word "Robot" projected as loud as possible, 3 feet from their face.

Try being polite when moving your robot. You might just surprise people into listening to you.

[Meredith Novak]

Originally Posted by littlejimmy1058

I think yelling Robot coming through is fine. If someone doesn't hear you, tap their shoulder. Disagreements?

It would have been tough to tap me on the shoulder as I was facing them and trying my best to move my group over before they ran us down. The aisles were HUGE and they had plenty of room. They were returning from a match, not late for one...not that that would be any excuse. I don't like apologizing for rude teams to a major university's engineering department dean.

[JaneYoung]

There's nothing wrong with being a stick in the mud. There's nothing wrong with caring about the events that you participate in and that you want to help shine. There's always something wrong with selfish carelessness.

Not sure why the new teams don't get the word about building or buying robot carts to transport their robots. So much of this was discussed last year at the end of the regional here in CD. I'm sure that it was discussed by the event planners, too. It should have been.

There is no reason for the pathways for the robot to and from their pits to be blocked. Not at the Alamo Regional.

I'm scratching my head over the bridge play, though. Not cool.

Edit: Ed, I think some of what you are seeing with the students in the pits - is the young age of the teams at the Alamo. I think a lot of what you are seeing is that. Also - At the BEST competitions, there is a Spirit break and teams bring their cheerleaders and drumlines for the Spirit break. At BEST Regional level, teams bring their cheerleaders and school bands to the event. A lot of the Texas teams are also BEST teams. There could be some crossover at a FIRST event. My opinion is that the event planners should be aware of the problems of crowding the floor around the field and they should plan for it. After the Alamo last year, I was very frustrated with the crowd situation. I thought about events that I had been to where the crowds were huge and happy/excited and the one that came to mind was IRI. Even in a high school gym that did not have the space that the Alamo venue has - there is not that crowd issue. The teams maintain - themselves - very well. I think that is key and I also think the event planners are key - in managing the crowd behaviors.

Some guidelines could easily be developed.

Jane

[littlejimmy1058]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

There's nothing wrong with being a stick in the mud. There's nothing wrong with caring about the events that you participate in and that you want to help shine. There's always something wrong with selfish carelessness.

Not sure why the new teams don't get the word about building or buying robot carts to transport their robots. So much of this was discussed last year at the end of the regional here in CD.

There is no reason for the pathways for the robot to and from their pits to be blocked. Not at the Alamo Regional.

I'm scratching my head over the bridge play, though. Not cool.

Jane

I think safety Captains sometimes focus on safety glasses and clean pits and don't realize that this goes into after regionals too. You don't have to be building something to worry about safety. DON'T PLAY ON THE BRIDGES!!!!