Stopping a Triple Balance

[bam-bam]

Originally Posted by dellagd

I must say, this is my rookie year and all this strategy stuff is really interesting

I found this year to be one of the more difficult years for scouting, because of the (somewhat) heightened difficulty with shooting, and the importance balancing with the bridges. In addition, the cooperation bridge was an freakin' huge wrench thrown into a lot of teams' plans.

Last year and 2010 was pretty easy in terms of functions required, as you only needed two defining actions in order to win the regional (For 2010, it was kicking and raising yourself up on the towers, while 2011 was being able to put tubes on the wall and having a fast minibot.)



If you want to be able to defense OR balance, you need high traction.

[dellagd]

Originally Posted by bam-bam

I found this year to be one of the more difficult years for scouting, because of the (somewhat) heightened difficulty with shooting, and the importance balancing with the bridges. In addition, the cooperation bridge was an freakin' huge wrench thrown into a lot of teams' plans.

Last year and 2010 was pretty easy in terms of functions required, as you only needed two defining actions in order to win the regional (For 2010, it was kicking and raising yourself up on the towers, while 2011 was being able to put tubes on the wall and having a fast minibot.)



If you want to be able to defense OR balance, you need high traction.

Well our team is using pneumatic tires, so this might work for us! This is cool...

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Originally Posted by bam-bam

If you want to be able to balance, you need high traction.

Oh? All of the effective balancing alliances that I've seen have consisted of two or three teams--one or two that lower the bridge and get on, and one that pushes them up to balance. Only this last robot needs to have high traction...

[kjmccarx]

Sure, the strategy with having one team push up another robot or two works great. But only if two or more of the robots have short drive bases.

Our team has a robot that has high traction wheels. Our bot can make it up the bridge, and push people up with no problem - but we are a long robot. Because we're long we can't triple balance with ease. In the quarter finals in at the Autodesk Oregon regional we were beat by the only alliance that could triple balance. In such a situation it would have been necessary to have two of our alliance partners balance, while one of us defends the opposing alliance from getting the triple balance.

Has anyone seen a strategy that could prevent even ONE of the robots from getting on the bridge to turn a 3x balance into a 2x balance? This would make the final outcome of the match come down to the number of baskets - rather than only the team that can make a 3x balance.

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Originally Posted by kjmccarx

Has anyone seen a strategy that could prevent even ONE of the robots from getting on the bridge to turn a 3x balance into a 2x balance? This would make the final outcome of the match come down to the number of baskets - rather than only the team that can make a 3x balance.

Well, you could do what 118's alliance did and ram the third robot across the field, but that rarely works out perfectly. If you played your cards right, you could make sure that you don't have to face a triple balancing alliance, or you could make one yourself.

I love Rebound Rumble if only because it penalizes teams who choose to use the most common drive train configuration in FRC.

[bam-bam]

Originally Posted by ThirteenOfTwo

Oh? All of the effective balancing alliances that I've seen have consisted of two or three teams--one or two that lower the bridge and get on, and one that pushes them up to balance.

You are correct.

Originally Posted by ThirteenOfTwo

Only this last robot needs to have high traction...

Not quite.

I'm assuming that you are talking about double/triple balancing (if it was singular, then yes, the robot does not necessarily need high traction). From what I've seen in balancing, it usually comes down to the robots on either end. If you're pushing up two robots with something like mecanum, then what will you do when the bridge tips over to the other side? Back up slowly and risk tipping over the robot on the other end of the bridge (which I've seen was extremely likely) and lose the triple balance?

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Originally Posted by bam-bam

Not quite.

I'm assuming that you are talking about double/triple balancing (if it was singular, then yes, the robot does not necessarily need high traction). From what I've seen in balancing, it usually comes down to the robots on either end. If you're pushing up two robots with something like mecanum, then what will you do when the bridge tips over to the other side? Back up slowly and risk tipping over the robot on the other end of the bridge (which I've seen was extremely likely) and lose the triple balance?

Many of the more effective triple balancers have robots with special attachments to help them balance. A mecanum, for instance, might have a "stinger" to stop the bridge from tilting too far in the other direction. Depending on the angle of the bridge I could definitely see a low-traction drive like a mecanum having the force to slowly push a higher-traction robot.

You're correct, though, that lower traction certainly would make balancing harder. Does anyone have video of a high-traction and low-traction combo trying to balance?

[Yankeefan181]

Originally Posted by sst.thad

I saw 488 defend the triple balance in week 1. what they did is get inbetween the bridge and the robots trying to get up. it worked well, and actually stopped the triple that match.

I saw this match too, they were extremely effective at pushing the third robot into the fender and keeping them away from the bridge. Here's video

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2012stx_sf1m2

The strategy is to keep the third robot away from the bridge, while avoiding penalties. It sounds difficult, but it can be done, as seen here. Kudos to 488 and their alliance partners for putting together a smart strategy like that in week 1.

[JakeD]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan181

I saw this match too, they were extremely effective at pushing the third robot into the fender and keeping them away from the bridge. Here's video

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2012stx_sf1m2

The strategy is to keep the third robot away from the bridge, while avoiding penalties. It sounds difficult, but it can be done, as seen here. Kudos to 488 and their alliance partners for putting together a smart strategy like that in week 1.

This is essentially what I was saying earlier. At about the 1:45 mark you can see 488 push 922 into the corner like i was talking about. The difference is I believe with skillful driving you can essentially trap them there by forcing their driver to use less space to maneuver around you.

[dellagd]

So we dont believe there is a way to really defend if all robots are going onto the bridge from the side of the field on their alley?

[George Nishimura]

You have to block them from getting to the alley.

[deadman666]

My team, 3487, just compeated in the bmr here in Indiana, and I was wondering if it was leagal for another robot on the blue alliance to run into our robot on purpose? I ask this because this happened to us in the simi-finals and they pentilized us and caused an electrical blow out on our robot.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by deadman666

My team, 3487, just compeated in the bmr here in Indiana, and I was wondering if it was leagal for another robot on the blue alliance to run into our robot on purpose? I ask this because this happened to us in the simi-finals and they pentilized us and caused an electrical blow out on our robot.

I would recommend that you check the rulebook (as well as a dictionary), but in general, running into another robot is allowed.

[deadman666]

Originally Posted by bduddy

I would recommend that you check the rulebook (as well as a dictionary), but in general, running into another robot is allowed.

not my fault for having the worst spelling on the planet, but thank you.

[Dale]

My team, 3487, just compeated in the bmr here in Indiana, and I was wondering if it was leagal for another robot on the blue alliance to run into our robot on purpose? I ask this because this happened to us in the simi-finals and they pentilized us and caused an electrical blow out on our robot

That's quite off topic and there aren't enough details in your post to respond in your case. That being said there are many places in the rules this year where one robot could cause another to get a foul by pushing them into the opposing alliance's key, alley, or bridge.