2012 Field Comm. Issue Logs

[waialua359]

I'll let our CSA from our team chime in later with details.
Apparently, we are the only team with a 1.4 firmware at our regional, including our backup one.

In our only loss in a match today we lost comm (lag issue) for the last 30 seconds in our match.
It affected our ability to do the coop bridge also. Not knowing how it could've changed the outcome was frustrating.

[RyanN]

Originally Posted by waialua359

I'll let our CSA from our team chime in later with details.
Apparently, we are the only team with a 1.4 firmware at our regional, including our backup one.

In our only loss in a match today we lost comm (lag issue) for the last 30 seconds in our match.
It affected our ability to do the coop bridge also. Not knowing how it could've changed the outcome was frustrating.

If that is the field from Bayou, I would be interested in knowing what FW version the Loan Router has. We used it basically all Friday and Saturday.

Can you please get someone to check on this for us?

[Madison]

I don't have a lot of the information you'd like to see here since I am not a control systems person by any means. I am, however, the drive coach and so I see the problems we have first hand.

We ran throughout the Alamo regional without any trouble. We ran throughout the qualifying matches of the Seattle Olympic without any trouble.

During the elimination rounds, we experienced severe lag in several matches and lost the video from our camera in at least one match. Several others experienced similar issues including loss of the camera feed, both on our alliance and on others.

The common sense that FIRST is so fond of suggests that the chance of the same issue plaguing multiple teams at the same time is quite small, but does not, apparently, apply to the field or control system.

I'll try to get someone with a better understanding of how our control system is configured to chime in.

[rwood359]

Based on what we saw in Hawaii, I'm going to ask the Houston Inspection crew to check the firmware version. It takes about 4 minutes to download the firmware. If Inspection thinks it would take to long to download any 1.4 bridged there, I'll go to the pits and do it. It may not help, but I don't think that it will hurt.

[mandrews281]

We had comm issues at Palmetto and here's what happened.

1. Started out OK.
2. We turned on our camera software (image processing on the netbook DS). Ping times reported from the FMS tech were spiking at >1sec!!!!! (no data on CPU usage on netbook). The field techs down graded our radio firmware.
3. Tried again with the redone radio. Ping times still >1sec.
4. Turned off camera processing on netbook DS. Everything OK.
5. Setup a laptop to replace the netbook as the DS.
6. We turned on the camera processing with a notebook. Everything OK from both our and the field techs point of view. Notebook CPU < 35%.

Our experience is that many communication issues are probably tied to CPU usage on the netbook or cRIO. This was mentioned in one of the team updates.

On a related note, during eliminations, we started setting up the notebook at the driver station and connected to the FMS. Then we spotted that we only had 10min of battery life left and decided to do a quick swap to the netbook to avoid problems in the match. Sop we unplugged the joysticks, enhancedIO and network from notebook and plugged it into the netbook. DON'T EVER DO THIS !!! Once you connect to the FMS you should consider yourself committed to that DS computer. Our netbook didn't recognize the joysticks soon enough and we couldn't drive the robot during the match. Functions on the EnhancedIO worked (shooter). Nearly cost our alliance the quarter finals.

[DominickC]

So, have we isolated issues to the driver station computer's CPU? Or have we deemed it to be a contributing factor? We were using my personal computer as our drivers station due to our dedicated computer biting the dust...

2011 MacBook Pro 13''
2.4GHz Intel i5
8gb DDR3
Parallels x64 Windows 7 running on Mac OS X Snow Leopard.

[rwood359]

Originally Posted by DominickC

So, have we isolated issues to the driver station computer's CPU? Or have we deemed it to be a contributing factor?

I guess that I would say contributing factor. We had problems when running 1.4. The processor on our DS is an i7. We do vision processing in the DS, but the usage doesn't go much about 25% - as I remember.

[tuyauxtu]

Team 781 competed at Waterloo this past weekend. We have two Axis 1101 cameras connected to a classmate e09 ds (no image processing). At two matches I watched the field display screen and saw round trip times of 100-plus and accumulated lost packets in the hundreds of thousands (versus below 10/100 for the other teams). The field tech indicated that the two cameras were the cause. We will be switching to a faster laptop for the driver station, and would like to know if there is any way we can test this (e.g. Display trip times and lost packets) on our practice bot/field before we head to Queen City. I'll continue to research this, but I figured you folks would be able to provide specific guidance.

- Team 781
- Which event? Waterloo
- Wireless bridge radio HW revision? (A1, A2, or B1) A, can't verify A1 or A2 until I can get into it at Cincinnati.
- Radio firmware rev? I'll check at Cincinnati
- Programming language? C++
- Using a dashboard app? Regular Dashboard customized to display both camera images (could we have done this incorrectly such that we have initiated the communications issues ?)
- Using vision with Axis Camera and cRIO processing? 2 x m1101, no vision processing
- Using vision with driver station processing? No
- Did you have the radio mounted near motors/large metal structure? Mounted on a lexan panel near the battery
- Using classmate as driver station? Yes but hopefully not for much longer.
- 4 or 8 slot cRIO? (FRC-CRIO2 or Old version) 4 slot
- CAN Jaguars? What FW version? No CAN

Thanks
Pat

[RufflesRidge]

Originally Posted by tuyauxtu

We will be switching to a faster laptop for the driver station, and would like to know if there is any way we can test this (e.g. Display trip times and lost packets) on our practice bot/field before we head to Queen City. I'll continue to research this, but I figured you folks would be able to provide specific guidance.

Trip times and lost packets are graphed on the Charts tab of the Driver Station and in the logs viewable with the Driver Station Log Viewer in C:\Program Files\FRC Driver Station.

[Mastonevich]

Originally Posted by rwood359

I guess that I would say contributing factor. We had problems when running 1.4. The processor on our DS is an i7. We do vision processing in the DS, but the usage doesn't go much about 25% - as I remember.

Could you be maxing out one of the i7 cores, assuming it is a 4 core processor? I know we have a beefy driver station without image processing and without the smart dashboard and I did not hear our kids complaining about any lag issues. We were at St. Louis where other issues were reported above.

[rwood359]

Originally Posted by Mastonevich

Could you be maxing out one of the i7 cores, assuming it is a 4 core processor? I know we have a beefy driver station without image processing and without the smart dashboard and I did not hear our kids complaining about any lag issues. We were at St. Louis where other issues were reported above.

It is a quad core. I don't think that we are maxing it out. I'll take a closer look in Houston next week.

[DominickC]

When you guys say you lost comms with the FMS, do you mean a spike in lost packets, an exceedingly long trip time, or "No communication" displayed in the DS? I'm interested in the fact that so many people - including Team 23 - are having issues with the FMS.

[Greg McKaskle]

I've now heard of another team at WPI where the robot eas only able to spin in circles. Can someone from the drive team give details as to when it started during the match, what you were able to do, what eventually happened, etc?

I looked for footage but couldn't locate either. I was able to investigate one of these right after it happened, and expected it to be a chain, jammed, a speed controller, etc. I found a missing limit jumper on a jag that would have disabled one motor in one direction, but it wasn't clear that this was the issue, contributed to it, or was there all season and they were simply driving with a severely imbalanced drivetrain. They had four motors.

Before I explain what I suspect, I'd like to hear about recent issues involving spinning robots that weren't due to mechanical or speed controller issues.

Greg McKaskle

[DominickC]

I've just sent our drive team a message asking for further details. As soon as they get back to me, I'll let you know. Do you need/want any information on our router version and firmware?

If I remember correctly, the limit switch jumper just reverses the motor direction on the Jag?

EDIT: Our operator is telling me that they were able to control it for literally 2 seconds, enough time to step up to the controls and try to drive it. He went on to say that our two camera feeds froze the second we started spinning. He doesn't remember what the RSL was doing, but since the logs say we were in teleop, I would assume it was flashing the teleop sequence.

[Greg McKaskle]

I can't seem to find the Luminary manual that would be definitive, but I think the limit switch is used to enable or disable movement in a particular direction. They are also used for ramping if using the latest FW. If missing, I believe this jumper will stop and either coast or brake the motor and ignore inputs in that particular direction.

As for firmware version info, sure. Give it to me. But honestly, what I want most is a eye-witness account of the behavior or a video of the incident. I didn't see it, and even the one I saw happened unexpectedly, and I didn't see it begin. I walked to the side of the field to see if I could see a jammed ball, a chain obviously jumped off the sprocket, etc. After the match people were excited and talking about field faults and whatnot, and I couldn't get a good explanation of what took place. I don't want to bias someone into telling me symptoms that support what I think may have taken place, so I would like to have a description first.

Greg McKaskle