Championships - Qualification Only Event?

[stundt1]

My team is stuck in a predicament now. We try to attend champs every 4 years so everyone on the team gets a chance to attend champs. We aren't a powerhouse team or a consecutive chairman's team. Each year we attend 2 regionals a travel regional and FLR.

Next season we are hoping to go to champs through wait listing. We are unsure of our chances of getting in we believe it will be very slim this year. We cannot afford to attend 2 regionals this year on top of champs.

The problem with us going on the wait list is there is a risk involved that we might not get in and we lose the opportunity to go to a second regional. If we decide to go to a second regional instead of champs, then we wont be able to go to champs resulting in some unhappy students. A majority of students on our team are looking forward to attending champs.

So I was wondering if anyone knew how many teams on the wait list got accepted last year? It would be very helpful in our decision.

Anyone in the same predicament as us?

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by stundt1

My team is stuck in a predicament now. We try to attend champs every 4 years so everyone on the team gets a chance to attend champs. We aren't a powerhouse team or a consecutive chairman's team. Each year we attend 2 regionals a travel regional and FLR.

Next season we are hoping to go to champs through wait listing. We are unsure of our chances of getting in we believe it will be very slim this year. We cannot afford to attend 2 regionals this year on top of champs.

The problem with us going on the wait list is there is a risk involved that we might not get in and we lose the opportunity to go to a second regional. If we decide to go to a second regional instead of champs, then we wont be able to go to champs resulting in some unhappy students. A majority of students on our team are looking forward to attending champs.

So I was wondering if anyone knew how many teams on the wait list got accepted last year? It would be very helpful in our decision.

Anyone in the same predicament as us?

That would be a cool number to have!

It is hard to say. This year there is the introduction of the Wild Card system along with new regionals so the number of waitlisted teams getting into CMP is unknown and will be less than previous years.

I wouldn't hinge your entire season on the waitlist. In my opinion I would be more disappointed if my team only attended one regional instead of two because we didn't make the small window for waitlisted team.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by stundt1

My team is stuck in a predicament now. We try to attend champs every 4 years so everyone on the team gets a chance to attend champs. ...snip
...
So I was wondering if anyone knew how many teams on the wait list got accepted last year? It would be very helpful in our decision.

Anyone in the same predicament as us?

I would recommend proposing 2 options to the team:

Option 1: Attend a 2nd regional and understand the likelihood of attending the World championship is low. Present what the budget is and talk about what kind of "emergency fund-raising" would be required should you get a waitlist spot (Mathematically speaking, I do not think there are a lot of these spots left in the future of FRC).

Option 2: Plan on attending the World Championship whether or not you qualify. If you qualify or get a wiat-list slot, you are ready to go. If you don't qualify, attend anyway and make sure students take advantage of scholarship row, seminars, and ... If you have a strong scouting team, or a students interested in improving scouting, have them join in on some of the other teams there to see how their systems work. Recommend that the students or mentors volunteer at the event to see the other side of how FRC is done...

Like Alan said, I would probably recommend our team attends even if we do not qualify.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

If the small and resource poor teams never get a trip to St. Louis, or where ever it’s held next, then FIRST will have failed that portion of their community.

Can I ask (and others have said this as well) why is the inherently true? I'm not saying it isn't...but why? Is it the dome? The VIPs? The shear number of teams? The presence of the other leagues? The added events (finale, Scholarship Row, etc)? The additional international teams?

I ask because on some level maybe what we need to do is recreate rather than expand that inspirational opportunity. For instance this year, a few rookie students were very clear that the Mid-Atlantic Championship was much more inspirational to them than Worlds. Now of course, it was earlier, we did better there, etc, etc. But I've heard similar comments about MSC as well. They're not Einstein, but they are most definitely inspirational. Why is never getting to go to Worlds, specifically, a failure of FIRST to those teams?

[Gregor]

I don't remember getting the memo that attending championship is a right.

[Alan Anderson]

If the TechnoKats ever lose their prequalified status as one of the original and sustaining teams, I'm going to suggest that we plan to attend the Championship Event anyway regardless of whether we qualify. It would be a lot less stressful, and very likely just as much fun, to show up just to browse the pits and scholarship booths, and to watch some of the best teams in the world compete. As a bonus, we'd have time to go to some of the presentations that we've never been able to see.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by Gregor

I don't remember getting the memo that attending championship is a right.

Going to Champs in not a right; It is a great privilege. One that seems to be for those who are privileged enough to live in more densely populated or affluant areas where there are resources (money and mentor assistance) to support a FIRST team at that level. I'm not saying that all teams that go to champs are lucky enough to be in this category, but I would bet to guess most are. I think that this new system will widen the gap between the "haves" and "have-nots." We need a system that will allow the chance to go to champs at some point regardless of their geographic/demographic situation.


Regarding "going to champs just to go even if we didn't qualify": That would be a wonderful option. However, I wonder what my school administrator would say if I asked for a field trip to go across the country to attend a competition we weren't competing in. That would be a rather interesting conversation to say the least.

Sadly, just like the "real world," the playing field for teams is never level for all teams. It was my belief that the waitlist for champs was a sort of equalizer for teams. Now that it has been removed, you will see a less diverse crowd on the field at Champs in the future.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

Regarding "going to champs just to go even if we didn't qualify": That would be a wonderful option. However, I wonder what my school administrator would say if I asked for a field trip to go across the country to attend a competition we weren't competing in. That would be a rather interesting conversation to say the least.

There are plenty of times this happens already outside of FIRST. How many Spanish classes fly to Spain for a summer trip? How many orchestras attend trips to Carnegie Hall (I'll give you a hint, I was just up in RURAL Maine, and they had posters signed by students for their annual trip)? How many science classes take a trip to the Boston Science Museum?

But how many non-winning high school soccer teams do you see competing at the state championships? How many softball teams get to compete internationally that couldn't win at their regional level?

You can either look at FIRST as a competition - like a sport - where you believe the best of the best compete for the Championships, or you can look at it as an opportunity taken by all other classes/clubs/activities... and go for the experience. The podunk school orchestra doesnt have to play there to appreciate visiting Carnegie Hall. The science classes don't have to have a science fair to show off their work to appreciate going to the Science Museum.

FIRST can simultaneously cover both worlds. It can offer an amazing competition for the robots where the best of the best compete... while allowing the rest to come, enjoy the show, take advantage of the multitude of different offerings (conferences, scholarship row, Hall of Fame, etc!). But it also allows us to sit at home and pout if we want to...

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by EricH

Three. Plus FTC (another FRC field, in effect, but can be spread around).

Apparently I should have put my implied sarcasm tag in bold or a larger font.

Last year Bill kept saying that the concert wasn't the reason for the pit fields, and to expect them to continue. Anyone heard anything different?

[Mark Sheridan]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

Apparently I should have put my implied sarcasm tag in bold or a larger font.

Last year Bill kept saying that the concert wasn't the reason for the pit fields, and to expect them to continue. Anyone heard anything different?

I hope they changed it, it was very loud in the pits for teams right next to the arenas. It was not fair for those teams.

In regards to qualifying for championships, I am all for it to be merit based. My old team 766 would only go if we won a regional. I really think its more important to have a championship that actualy feels like that it is made up of the best robots of the country.

I would go as far as suggesting that the EI award and rookie all-star to not be guaranteed admissions to championships. I rather open the spots for two "wild card" candidates. Perhaps the EI, rookie all-star and all teams that reach the semifinals are in the running for the wild card spots. I am not sure the selection method. I suppose it could be either by judges or a scoring system similar to the district model.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

One of the changes in the system with FiM and MAR is that only teams that "qualify" are able to attend the district championship and and world championship.

Right now the FIRST Championship is a combination of teams that qualified by winning certain awards, winning events, winning the previous year, or are grandfathered in as Hall of Fame teams or original FIRST teams, and teams that register based on when they last attended through the open registration process.

Has anyone looked at what the number of teams are that qualify, based on just current year performance, for the last few years of the CHP?

The number would only include teams that won an event (3 or 4 per regional), won RCA, EI or RAS, or qualified out of the FiM system.

Here is a look at 2011. Does Michigan qualify anybody other than its 3-4 winners / 3x CA / EI / RAS from MSC? By this count I have 95 out of 352 teams attending the 2011 Championship via pre-registration or waitlist.

2011 Qualifiers.xlsx