IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

[Hawiian Cadder]

I think that ALL the spare balls should go on the cooperation bridge at the begging of a match. At IRI almost everyone will put up a strong hybrid score, so incentives for a team to write code that beats every other robot there to the middle bridge would be cool. This would also make defense robot that cross the bump in hybrid important because they would have a reason to start the match between the opposing robots and the fender.

[Greg Needel]

Here are my rule change suggestions, I would not implement all of them, as some of them are contradictory, but each on their own should enhance the game in a different way. I really support the first one.

• make the co-op bridge be worth 10 pts for a balance in eliminations. This way it is still better off to triple but would only be a 10pt difference if you got a double + the coop. Also this would be really exciting action for 2 alliances that can't triple. fight over the bridge at the end or score those last few points.

• put more balls on the field, Increase the number of balls from 18 to 24-36, should increase the scores in the matches and will take away starvation choke hold strategies. You can accomplish this by either putting them on the bridges or allowing teams to pre-load 3.

• Allow triple balancing during the qualification rounds, if a team does it they get 1 extra coop point (3 total for the winners)

• Go back to the old ranking system where win-loss-tie determines the main ranking and then use co-op points as the tiebreaker.

[jspatz1]

Lasts year's IRI rules trimmed down the mini-bot scores, and added emphasis to teleop play by adding more scoring with ubertubes. This year's huge point bonus for triple balance could be trimmed from 40 to 30. That's still big enough to justify doing it, but would not overwhelm the teleop scoring quite as much.

[SM987]

Just make the co-op bridge the tie breaker as (IMO) it should be. Or alternatively implement some "king of the hill" battle for the middle bridge as part of the endgame. Getting rid of the lanes sounds fun as well.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by SM987

Just make the co-op bridge the tie breaker as (IMO) it should be. Or alternatively implement some "king of the hill" battle for the middle bridge as part of the endgame. Getting rid of the lanes sounds fun as well.

Well that would make for interesting strategy as teams would probably draft a "cannon fodder" bot to battle for those points "for the sake of the alliance" and save scorers from potential elimination participation ending damage from such battles or ignore going for such points altogether if it's not worth the trouble.

[Aren Siekmeier]

I still don't know why people want to nerf the coop bridge. It's an awesome game feature in every way.

[JosephC]

Originally Posted by Multiple People

Let's remove the lanes!

This just made me remember a "God Bot" strategy I was talking about a few days ago.

1. Build a robot with a intake that was tall enough and wide enough to cover the whole feeder station opening.

2. Have your alliance make 7+ shots in hybrid mode. These all have to go in; if they don't additional balls have to be shot in during Tele-Op.

3. Immediately park your robot in front of the opposing alliance's feeder station.

4. Continuously shoot 3 pointers.

Because of the 6 ball holding limit; the Inbounders would have to throw at least 1 ball into your robot, since they can't throw it any where else. Once you score that ball they have to throw another one into your robot. Thus creating a constant scoring machine, much like the one 469 had in Breakaway.

In a regular season event this strategy only works until the opposing alliance comes to your side of the field and hits you; as you are in their lane. However, if IRI announces that they are removing lanes, I'm going to force my team to redesign our robot .

Originally Posted by rcmolloy

Still going to edge on the three point line...

Gaffer's Tape in a semi-circle tangent to the top of the key like on a real college/high school/elementary court. Beyond that line, every ball shot has an additional 2 points added to the original score only in teleop.

Great idea, although I'd prefer an additional 1 point.

[Ankit S.]

Originally Posted by SM987

Or alternatively implement some "king of the hill" battle ... as part of the endgame.

What if the bridges lost their distinction of red/blue/coop, and at the end of a match teams had to race to the bridges and balance on any of bridges. The alliance with the most robots balanced across the three bridges would get a bonus.

In case of a tie, the alliance with the largest number of their own robots on a single bridge gets the bonus.

[Nathan Streeter]

Coopertition Bridge Points
- 2 Supported robots on un-balanced bridge: 0 pts (instead of 1)
- 2 Supported robots balanced on bridge: 1 pt (instead of 2)
- 3 Supported robots balanced on bridge: 2 pts
- 4 Supported robots balanced on bridge: 3 pts
- 5 Supported robots balanced on bridge: 4 pts
- 6 Supported robots balanced on bridge: 5 pts

I really don't see more than 4 robots balancing on a bridge, but it makes sense that if you're that good at balancing you should be rewarded... I think with the level of the field at IRI, 2 robot balances on the co-op bridge would practically be a given. Reducing the point value of 2 balanced robots and adding the opportunity for more robots to balance would keep the challenge in it while preventing the co-op bridge points from getting ridiculous.

Qualification Alliance Bridge Points
- 3 balanced robots are worth 40 pts (same as elims)

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to do this in quals... If you'd rather win the match at the expense of the most seeing points, go ahead. By requiring 40 bridge points (and three robots) to win, you've put the handicap of not being able to get more seeding points on yourself...

Hybrid Scoring
- Any balls shot in hybrid that score are awarded the hybrid bonus. As some have suggested, this could be achieved by pausing the match after hybrid.

I've found the fact that balls shot in hybrid often fail to be counted frustrating... It seems like if a robot shot the scoring ball under hybrid control, it should get hybrid points. None of this trying to see if the ball had passed through the rim of the hoop by the end of hybrid period...

Hybrid Period Duration
- Hybrid period lasts for 20 seconds, instead of 15. This would enable more teams to realistically attempt scoring balls off the alliance bridges in hybrid.

It seems like the limiting factor for (more) teams doing this is the time...

Alliance Bridge Foul
- Alliance Bridge Fouls only apply when either a robot of the appropriate alliance is contacting it or during the final 30 seconds of the match.

This would help minimize some of the "pointless" fouls, while retaining the purpose of the foul. It would become more like the key and the lanes, which are only protected when in use.

Contacting Bridge Stipulation for "Stacking"
- Repeal G30-1, which requires a stacking robots to be in contact with the bridge.

This move is hard enough as is... I don't see what the motivation for requiring contact with the bridge is beside making the maneuver more sketchy and dangerous.

[rick.oliver]

1. Pre-load with 3 balls each; no bonus points for balls scored in hybrid; 10 point bonus for leading at the end of hybrid.
2. Choose to pre-load or place in your own ball corral.
3. In-bounders may throw over the wall the entire match.
4. Make the Key a box (current width and 48" deep); robots are protected only when fully inside the box.
5. Bridge points 5, 10, 20 in quals and elims
6. 10 points plus 2 coop points to each alliance when balanced on coop bridge; no points for not balanced.

[JohnSchneider]

what about some sort of tip off. 1 member of each alliance can start hybrid at the middle ramp instead and said "moneyball" is on the middle ramp. When auto starts, the two robots would both push on the bridge, and the stronger bridge pull down would get the ball...or something to the equivalent.

Also Im going to be like the 30th person to suggest the Co-op bridge be 1 pt instead of 2.

[sprocketman92]

I think it would be really interesting if every robot was able to pre load 3 balls for autonomous.

[ratdude747]

My Idea for Qualification balancing:

- Toss out the whole coopertition bit. Let's be honest; Coopertition has no place at IRI.
- Allow triple balances during Qualifications. I personally think having separate game rules during Eliminations vs Qualfications is stupid... They should be the same game.

Also, I think trolling and side-hanging (118) should be legalized... trolling is quite a feat and I think it presents a challenge worth points... since most troll bots couldn't do much with the balls*, its a reasonable trade off.

* At IRI, one could find a way...

Also, I think that it should be made legal to use the 6 Autonomus balls in any way the alliance sees fit, as long as no bot has more than 3 in the bot any given moment... so 3 + 3 + 0 and 1 + 3 + 2 would be legal configurations

I agree that hail mary shots deserve more credit... just not so much that they become like the supercells were in 2009.

I also agree that the kinect needs axed... Useless.

On a last note, I am not sure if it would fit in but I think it would be cool to revive "best play of the day"...

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

Also, I think trolling and side-hanging (118) should be legalized... trolling is quite a feat and I think it presents a challenge worth points... since most troll bots couldn't do much with the balls*, its a reasonable trade off.

Yes. When I saw 118 at Alamo I thought "Yep. That's illegal but very very cool. IRI should allow them to do that. IT would be quite a show."

[Nathan Streeter]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

My Idea for Qualification balancing:

- Toss out the whole coopertition bit. Let's be honest; Coopertition has no place at IRI.

I really hope you don't mean that Coopertition is just a silly game element that can be pulled out of FIRST...

Perhaps you could make a case that the Coopertition Bridge is just a silly game element that doesn't belong at IRI; however, even that would make me wonder why you think it doesn't belong at IRI... About the only thing I could see is because you think that IRI (unlike everything else in FIRST) isn't about Coopertition... rather it's a no-holds-barred fight amongst the best robots to crown the champions. That simply isn't true. IRI seeks to invite the very best robots to play the FIRST game, achieving the highest level of play, while keeping in place the FIRST atmosphere.

Really though, I don't understand the antagonism against ranking teams better that can consistently work with their opponents to balance the center bridge. I think that at IRI (with the strong, deep field) Coopertition balances will be the norm, hence why I'm in favor of reducing the double Coop balance to 1 point, and allowing a triple Coop balance for 2 points. This ups the amount of skill and effort required to achieve the same boost in rankings. I wish that the norm I foresee at IRI (working together to accomplish a single goal) was so easily achieved by all...