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Unread 06-04-2012, 16:37
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

I feel like there should be a GDC rather than 'committee of MCs and Announcers' ruling on something that affects the game as much as this does. I would ask the question on Q&A, but I can't seem to think of what section it should be in, and there is no 'other' option.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 23:15
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

Personally from my time as announcing, I work it out with the scorekeepers to take the score down immediately after the buzzer sounds. That way it doesn't interfere with any match play, but still gives us a bit of excitement before the big reveal. We also only do this for the semi-finals and final rounds.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 23:41
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

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Originally Posted by George A. View Post
Personally from my time as announcing, I work it out with the scorekeepers to take the score down immediately after the buzzer sounds. That way it doesn't interfere with any match play, but still gives us a bit of excitement before the big reveal. We also only do this for the semi-finals and final rounds.
I like this method best. Drive teams know the score, and the reveal is really about finding out if all balances are legit. Adds a bit of suspense, makes it clear what the final score is, and doesn't change the game.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 09:33
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

At the North Star elims, it was removed with a few seconds left. It could have been done to decrease the cycle time by readying the final score or add drama by not showing the final score until the end, but I disagree with both of these explanations.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 10:09
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

I've watched scores get removed mid-match. It definitely seems like it's meant to add excitement for the crowd, but its extraordinarily annoying for people relying on it on the field.
Say you want to decide how many robots you need to get on the bridge for the endgame. You get yourself ready, look up at the score and...... nothing.

I don't think they should do it anymore. Maybe take it down the second teleoperated period ends, so the crowd watching the match will still have the intensity if they miss it, but it's up the whole time players on the field need it.

Imagine you're watching a professional basketball game and suddenly the scoreboard turns off, how annoying would that be?
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Unread 07-04-2012, 16:48
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

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Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor View Post
At the North Star elims, it was removed with a few seconds left. It could have been done to decrease the cycle time by readying the final score or add drama by not showing the final score until the end, but I disagree with both of these explanations.
Hi to original poster and others that are angry with this removal of score.

As an excoach I understand the importance of real time scoring. At Northstar we pulled the scores in the last 5 seconds to keep excitement up in the audience while not affecting strategy of teams. I think it was effective to a degree but like someone said earlier, I think it really doesn't matter because most of the time the robots were balanced with 20+ seconds left in the match. Plus Wildstang put on one heck of a show. I think at champs the scoring will be heavily regulated and most likely taken off as the buzzer sounds.

I agree with the OP, pulling the scores off for over a minute is the worst idea anyone could make. It disrupts the game play, and makes it hard for GA's to call play by play and update scores/time easily. On top of all that it makes it impossible to form a onthefly strategy to win the game. Next year (if one of my fellow GA's don't beat me to it) during the conference calls for whatever game is being played ill make sure to mention this straight off the bat to clear up the confusion and post my findings on Chief Delphi.


TL'DR: Took scores off in the last 5 seconds off North Star for excitement, Will post findings on score removal from the head of GA.

EDIT: Just emailed the head GA

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Last edited by SoMe_DuDe904 : 07-04-2012 at 17:05.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 08:24
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

The same thing happened at the Troy District; and for every match if I remember correctly. I don't think it was a mistake if it happened multiple times at multiple events.

Personally I think that it was done to make the end of the game more tense and unpredictable. When the score was up on the board all I had to do was add the bridge points on to get a winner. Now I'm just guessing until they post the final scores.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 08:35
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

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Originally Posted by JosephC View Post
The same thing happened at the Troy District; and for every match if I remember correctly. I don't think it was a mistake if it happened multiple times at multiple events.

Personally I think that it was done to make the end of the game more tense and unpredictable. When the score was up on the board all I had to do was add the bridge points on to get a winner. Now I'm just guessing until they post the final scores.
He wasn't talking about after the end of the game. He said it happened with one minuite left. Big difference! Are you saying that what happened at Troy was that the score screen was absent most of the time during the matches?
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Unread 06-04-2012, 10:33
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

Our team ran into something a little similar at our Niles regional. I made a post here about some thing's that I think would have helped our situation, which would also have helped your's.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...the+sco re%3F

I'd really like to see either/both of the ideas from that post implemented, as I think it would be valuable for teams in exactly your situation. (For those avoiding the link, the ideas were putting a score differential display above the clock at the opposing inbounder station, and putting a score display on the driver station). My thinking is you shouldn't have to look up at the video feed to see the score anyway, that's just bad UI design .

I don't really know where to go with the idea's other than CD, so I'm just trying to find support for the idea and hoping someone at FIRST hears about it.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 21:58
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

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Originally Posted by fsracer View Post
The time and score were removed from the big

we did not realize that all we had to do was keep shooting and go for the double balance( which we did repeatedly in 10 sec) for a most likely win and the championship, since we had won the first final. (We rushed the triple and were not successful).

I sincerely feel that this practice affected the outcome of the game.

I am interested in the FIRST community's comments on this issue.

Thanks all for listening to my venting.

Mr. S., Mentor 3137


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ6q1...eature=channel

This video is of the 2nd Final Match at SPBLI, you can see the ticker still shown all the way up until the 30 second mark, and at that point it appears they already decided to attempt their triple balance and failed and instead of going back and scoring they decide to just attempt it once again...

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Unread 06-04-2012, 22:31
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

At Troy during the qualification matches, the scores stayed up the entire time. They were even up while I was punching in the bridge results, so that the actual final score appeared even before the Whoosh! sound. I thought that was a little weird at first, but got used to the idea.

At some time on Saturday, I don't remember if it was morning or afternoon, I noticed that the scores were removed in the last final seconds of the match - maybe 5 seconds, certainly no more than 10. That gave a little more suspense to announcing the final score, but still allowed teams and audience to see the score throughout the match.

I don't know who made the call to show or not show the score.

It was noted several places that real-time scoring was the reason for having the automatic ball counters and the ref foul pads. Turning the score off defeats that purpose.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 22:52
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

Dropping the scores from the big screen at the end of the match, especially before the last 10 seconds seems like it would hurt the decision making on the field much more than it would enhance the suspense for the audience.

1st, the live audience has a much larger opportunity to view the entire field and keep track of the score in their head than does a drive coach. It seems dumb for the stands to know more about the score than the teams on the field.

2nd, when the score goes away the audience generally notices immediately and knows the most recent score. The drive team may not notice right away, but in the moment one of them decides to check it can be a huge surprise to not see it there.

3rd, Last years endgame everyone sent their minibot up the pole as fast as possible regardless of the score. There wasn't a decision to make. This year triple balancing is a risk, and if a double balance is enough to preserve the win teams should be allowed to make that decision with the best information available.

4th, is the web audience supposed to get into the competition or just be impressed with robots moving around. If the former, they need the score as much as anyone. Last year I loved the MSC televised broadcast. I wonder if that tv production crew would agree with this score pulling shenanigans for audience suspense.

Probably saying all the same things everyone else is here, just wanted to add my Amen to the choir.

PS. I can live with it in the last 5 seconds. Usually all the major decisions for the drive team have been made by then. Of course in many high end elimination matches everyone is already on a bridge by then and pulling the scores serves no purpose.
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Unread 07-04-2012, 01:08
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

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Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
At some time on Saturday, I don't remember if it was morning or afternoon, I noticed that the scores were removed in the last final seconds of the match - maybe 5 seconds, certainly no more than 10. That gave a little more suspense to announcing the final score, but still allowed teams and audience to see the score throughout the match.
I can deal with not having the score for the last 5 seconds, but can they at least keep the time?
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Unread 07-04-2012, 01:33
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

I think this is a case of trying to drag tradition into this year's game. Yes, in the past, the score wasn't official until the robots stopped moving, all the points were counted, and the penalties were subtracted. Revealing the score was a big deal.

But since we're playing basketball this year, let's play it like basketball. When the timer hits zero, and the hail-mary shot hits the floor, the crowd erupts. It's over. One team wins. In basketball, they don't stop for twenty seconds, make everyone sit down and be quiet, and try to introduce some artificial suspense before unveiling the score. When the buzzer goes off, everyone knows who won. In basketball, the suspense doesn't occur after the game, it peaks during the intense hard-fought plays as the clock winds down. Rebound Rumble is the same.
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Unread 07-04-2012, 09:48
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

This is a good argument for having a score display on the field, similar to the way time is displayed.
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