Engineering in college

[Ducky280]

This is my second year on a FIRST team and I really enjoy it. Unfortunately i did not have an opportunity to do any work on the robot. I was the photographer and I was a part of our Chairman's Award team. But being on the team did inspire me to pursue a degree in computer science and some type of engineering either electrical engineering or robotics engineering. My question is that if math and science isn't the strongest of your subjects, would pursing a degree in these areas be a bad idea?

[BigJ]

Computer science uses a lot of math, but it's not your typical high-school math. You use discrete math to learn about the efficiency of algorithms and different ways to solve problems. You also analyze code to get a sense of the "time complexity" and "space complexity" to compare the efficiency of different algorithms, but this is mainly being able to think about what kind of function the actions of your code represents (logarithmic vs exponential vs factorial, etc)

I did not take many EE classes but from my friends I believe there is a lot of calculus involved in EE, and I believe ABET accreditation for a curriculum requires you to go through multiple calculus and differential equations classes.

I'm not quite computer science but I studied software engineering, and had to take calculus 1-4 (derivatives, integrals, multiple integrals, different coordinate systems, etc) , differential equations, and statistics courses.

[EricH]

If you go into EE, as I understand it you will have to deal with a lot of Differential Equations.

I'm an ME student, and I had to take Calculus 1-3 (limits/derivatives/integrals, advanced integrals, 3D derivatives), and Differential Equations. I seem to be a glutton for punishment as several of my classes these days draw on Diff Eq. (I also had to take numerical analysis and a prob/stats course.)


Engineering in general is heavily math-based. You're not going to avoid math at all in engineering. Much if not all of the tougher math, at least in the ME side, will often be simplifiable to an algebraic equation, but as soon as you get into anything having to do with time-varying loads or motion, it's break out the calculus and diff, you've got some tough math ahead. On the EE side, if you're dealing with AC circuit analysis you can expect some complex numbers--and yes, I speak from experience; the MEs where I go to school have to take basic circuits, both DC and AC.

[Ducky280]

It's not that I can't do math at all because I am good at it to a point. It's just the fact that my high school teachers math aren't really good at breaking things down and teaching them. I'm not saying there not good teachers but their just confusing. But I can do math like Algebra and Geometry, I just haven't experienced Trig or Calc yet and will not have the opportunity to take it since this is my last trimester of high school before graduation.

[kgalea]

Could you try taking an online course or perhaps a community college math course (I know WCCC is right around the corner from you)? I really think it depends on how hard you are willing to work.

[Ducky280]

Originally Posted by kgalea

Could you try taking an online course or perhaps a community college math course (I know WCCC is right around the corner from you)? I really think it depends on how hard you are willing to work.

I was told WCCC wasn't the best school, but I'll probably end up taking some classes at Henry Ford before going to Wayne State.

[Kim Masi]

Originally Posted by Ducky280

It's not that I can't do math at all because I am good at it to a point. It's just the fact that my high school teachers math aren't really good at breaking things down and teaching them. I'm not saying there not good teachers but their just confusing. But I can do math like Algebra and Geometry, I just haven't experienced Trig or Calc yet and will not have the opportunity to take it since this is my last trimester of high school before graduation.

I would add to what the others said and take Trig at a community college, and then when you start at Fort Wayne you can start with Calc. In most cases trig is a pre-rec to calc so you will need it to start with calc, and calc is absolutely necessary for any type of engineering.

My university started out with Calc 1 for all engineering students. We did have to take a basic test at our orientation to prove we were ready to handle it.

I took calc in high school and I thought I had the worst teacher ever. Well, the whole class did. When I got to college and re-took calc 1 and 2, they came SO easy to me. Perhaps taking a calc course over the summer or at a CC and then starting fresh at a university will help your understanding.

Basically what I've gotten out of my ME degree is that Engineering=applied math. At least that's how our courses were structured, we learned the mathematical concept behind all of the applications.

[Warren Boudreau]

Over the years, I have come up with one question for someone who is thinking about being an engineer.

Now be truthful with yourself.....

In Algebra class, did you enjoy word problems?

If so, then you might like engineering. If not, try a different STEM area.

[Gary Dillard]

Just remember Warren went to LSU, where they didn't use very big words

[EricVanWyk]

I have some strongly held convictions on math and engineering education. For example, I think that algebra-based physics should be thrown away and replaced with calc-based physics... in 9th grade. In my immodest opinion, we lose a lot of potential engineers because the modern american math curriculum focuses too much on results and not enough on process - too many formulas, not enough concepts. It becomes a terrifying wall of cryptic symbols that can only be memorized... but the beauty of math is that it all makes sense and requires extremely little memorization once you understand it.

For example, take 1 dimensional 1 body physics. In algebra land, it is a whole lot of specific formulas to memorize. In calculus land, all you have to remember is
"position's first derivative is velocity, second derivative is acceleration". Combined with a few hours of calc, you can easily rediscover all the equations that you had to memorize in algebra-land. Why waste all that angst teaching it by brute force in the first place?



Before you decide that engineering isn't for you, ask yourself if you are having trouble with the Math concepts or the Math memorization. Force yourself to understand where all the equations come from, and you will have a much easier time. Spend the time up front, it will pay back in spades later.

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by Ducky280

It's not that I can't do math at all because I am good at it to a point. It's just the fact that my high school teachers math aren't really good at breaking things down and teaching them. I'm not saying there not good teachers but their just confusing. But I can do math like Algebra and Geometry, I just haven't experienced Trig or Calc yet and will not have the opportunity to take it since this is my last trimester of high school before graduation.

Being in college doesn't necessarily guarantee that the professors are better teachers (you may have been told this by others; my parents and high school teachers shoved it down my throat). I found myself having my mom send my high school precalc notes up within a week of starting calc 1, because the review that my professor did of basic calculus was extremely poor. I'm not too thrilled with my physics and calc 2 instructors either, but I've found that if you are willing to put in the extra effort, you will have significantly better results than the student who sits there and says "This class sucks, I just need to pass the final." I don't know how it works at other universities, but here we have a lot of extra help available in the form of learning centers and supplemental instruction, and it is very useful for struggling students.

To answer your original question: pursuing one of those degrees wouldn't be a bad idea, as long as you know that there will be some extra effort involved on your part.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by EricH

If you go into EE, as I understand it you will have to deal with a lot of Differential Equations.

I'm an ME student, and I had to take Calculus 1-3 (limits/derivatives/integrals, advanced integrals, 3D derivatives), and Differential Equations. I seem to be a glutton for punishment as several of my classes these days draw on Diff Eq. (I also had to take numerical analysis and a prob/stats course.)

The other guys are correct, if you can't learn differential equations you won't be able to handle EE.

As an EE you can expect to take the basic calculus series (2 or 3 classes depending on the school), Multivariable calculus, and atleast one semester of Differential Equations. As well as some form of discrete math and some form of probability and statistics. By the time you reach any kind of signal analysis course (junior year) you will be expected to be able to solve differential equations without trouble.

As a CS major you will likely be required to take the standard cal progression (2 or 3 classes) and Discrete math (which math people will tell you is easy but other people will hate) depending on the school and your concentration other math classes may be required.

If you aren't planning to take Calculus in school next year then I would strongly suggest you try taking it at a local Community College, even if your school doesn't accept the credits the experience will be nice and it is always nice to have an easy class your first semester.

[efoote868]

What year in school are you / when will you graduate?

I would recommend taking advanced (AP?) math and physics courses in high school. If you do well in those, you have a better chance at doing well in engineering.

If you find you absolutely can't stand those classes, I'd recommend finding a different major.

Any given school you go to for engineering will be different, but you're almost guaranteed to have at least 5 semesters of pure math courses (Calculus I-III, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations).

Most of the classes in Electrical Engineering I've taken have all been applied math (disguised with names like, Linear Circuit Analysis, Electric and Magnetic Fields, Signals and Systems, Probabilistic Methods in Electrical and Computer Engineering, Feedback System Analysis and Design). Fortunately it does have more application than pure math, along with real life examples.

[Ducky280]

Originally Posted by efoote868

What year in school are you / when will you graduate?

I would recommend taking advanced (AP?) math and physics courses in high school. If you do well in those, you have a better chance at doing well in engineering.

If you find you absolutely can't stand those classes, I'd recommend finding a different major.

Any given school you go to for engineering will be different, but you're almost guaranteed to have at least 5 semesters of pure math courses (Calculus I-III, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations).

Most of the classes in Electrical Engineering I've taken have all been applied math (disguised with names like, Linear Circuit Analysis, Electric and Magnetic Fields, Signals and Systems, Probabilistic Methods in Electrical and Computer Engineering, Feedback System Analysis and Design). Fortunately it does have more application than pure math, along with real life examples.

I'm a senior in High School and I'm graduating June 8th of this year

[Cory]

I pretty much hated most of the math classes I took. My calculus sequence pretty much sucked. Differential equations wasn't so bad because my professor made it entirely about damped/undamped spring-mass systems, which was directly relevant to mechanical engineering.

Linear algebra was probably the most useful course I've taken in college.

After finishing the math sequence it gets better as all your classes are using the math directly applied to your major. In ME the majority of the math I have to use is simple algebra, with some linear algebra and differential equations, along with basic integrals. It's not too bad, but you have to get through the classes to get to that point.