Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.

[Jon Stratis]

Lets also keep in mind that teams quit FRC for more reasons than just sponsorship. Some teams may decide to leave FRC for something they view as more challenging. Schools could pull their support, closing the team. The students in the school might not have enough interest in joining the team to keep the team alive.

IMO, sponsorship is the easiest one for FIRST to help a team solve, if the team really needs it and lets FIRST know they need help. As it stands, there are people around the country who spend enormous amounts of time helping find new sponsorship for teams. I know that's how my company (and then me) got involved with my team. That's also how a lot of teams in Minnesota get to Champs - through the work of those volunteers making phone calls starting the minute the team earns themselves a berth. When we made it to Champs in 2011, We knew where most of the funding for the trip was going to come from before we had even packed up the robot.

I'm confident that a great team like this will be able to find alternate sources of funding for their team, and that they won't be afraid to ask their regional FIRST volunteers and staff for assistance if they really need it.

[trilogy2826]

Originally Posted by dodar

What other HoF teams have faced a similiar situation to this and not come out the other side?

Keep in mind that for some "Blow your mind" reason, 71 is not a HoF team. Thus their sorely missed absence from St Louis this year.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by trilogy2826

Keep in mind that for some "Blow your mind" reason, 71 is not a HoF team. Thus their sorely missed absence from St Louis this year.

I know, but I have always just called them a HoF team becuase they represent every quality of one. That and the fact that I think once you win atleast 3, in 71's case they have 4, world championships you deserve a HoF spot. People may disagree with my belief in that but we must remember that even though the main purpose for FIRST isnt the competition, but it is key in the minds of students who join and particiapte and the fact it is the one thing that can unite students by.

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by dodar

What other HoF teams have faced a similiar situation to this and not come out the other side?

The 1993 winner is long gone.

---

My guess to why there wasn't a reason to keep them alive at all costs is that they probably figure that if a team made the HoF, then they are probably able to find thier way out of the problem by whatever means. What often times gets teams into the HoF IS getting out of such jams.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

The 1993 winner is long gone.

---

My guess to why there wasn't a reason to keep them alive at all costs is that they probably figure that if a team made the HoF, then they are probably able to find thier way out of the problem by whatever means. What often times gets teams into the HoF IS getting out of such jams.

Team 144 was disbanded and the mentor leadership started 1038. 144 has come back this year.
23 took 10 years off.
22 left and became team 4.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

22 left and became team 4.

It would be more accurate to say that 22 split into 4 and 22 (both of which competed in 2006); after 2006, 22 did not return.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

My guess to why there wasn't a reason to keep them alive at all costs is that they probably figure that if a team made the HoF, then they are probably able to find thier way out of the problem by whatever means. What often times gets teams into the HoF IS getting out of such jams.

Another factor (bigger, in my opinion) is then you get into the slippy slope of bailing out all failing teams and then teams that don't *need* money wanting their share.

The Midwest Regional (and all of FIRST) wouldn't be the same without 71. I'm not going to base conclusions off one article, but I hope they can find a way to compete next year.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

Is it particularly overzealous for a democratic government to respond to a perceived problem by enacting an ordinance? There's a fair debate to be had about the effectiveness of this ban at combatting theft by scavengers (which appears to be the impetus for the law), but as an imposition on "the people" in general, it's trivial at best.

Tristan,
On the surface it would certainly look this way. However, in the context of the surrounding area, this ordinance serves nothing but to suppress local business people. Hammond is completely surrounded by other urban areas, notably Chicago, Calumet City, Gary and Munster. So much so that it helps form a continuous urban industrial corridor bordered on Lake Michigan that extends from the Wisconsin border to the Indiana Dunes National Seashore. It has two Interstate Highway systems running through the city and it's western boundary forms the border with Illinois. This ordinance will do nothing to stop the scavengers. It will merely close down businesses, jobs and tax revenue. Certainly this is a complex issue for Hammond and other urban centers, however, shutting down recycling centers is not, in my opinion, a viable response to the problem.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Tristan,
On the surface it would certainly look this way. However, in the context of the surrounding area, this ordinance serves nothing but to suppress local business people. Hammond is completely surrounded by other urban areas, notably Chicago, Calumet City, Gary and Munster. So much so that it helps form a continuous urban industrial corridor bordered on Lake Michigan that extends from the Wisconsin border to the Indiana Dunes National Seashore. It has two Interstate Highway systems running through the city and it's western boundary forms the border with Illinois. This ordinance will do nothing to stop the scavengers. It will merely close down businesses, jobs and tax revenue. Certainly this is a complex issue for Hammond and other urban centers, however, shutting down recycling centers is not, in my opinion, a viable response to the problem.

May I play devil's advocate momentarily? I certainly can't dispute your extensive knowledge of their geography, but I did want to offer the City Council's side. For instance:

• "Gleason [Streets Department Commissioner] estimated city workers scrapping the material would generate between $50,000 to $100,000 per year for the city's general fund." Note I don't have the full story on general fund uses, but I did find an article that mentions having to potentially lay off teachers, charge insurance companies for ambulance mileage, and close redevelopment areas, all in just the past few months. I know nothing more than linked, but maybe this is the lesser of evils?
• "...It becomes a huge drain on my [speaks the Hammond Police Chief] manpower ... while taking care of those problems, we're not taking care of businesses and residences.”And "We have numerous incidents of subjects portraying to be scrappers stealing from yards and garages or casing houses for further crimes" According to NeighborhoodScout, Hammond has a significantly higher crime rate than Bloomington and Evansville (didn't check others). Again, if you're one of these more likely victims of violent crime in Hammond (whose violent crime rate is 1 in 121; Indiana is 1 in 318), maybe you consider it worth the tradeoff?

I'm not saying they've handled it in the best way possible. (Actually, I really don't think they did.) Just that there's always more to the story.


As far the 71 itself, not to mention the well-respected Beatty International, I hope they can put this all in context (whatever the correct context is) and pull through. We'll definitely miss this should-be HOF if they can't make it, but something tells me they will!

[Cory]

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that Beatty Mfg would drop all support of the team. I can see that the money could be going away, but why would their subsidiary closing have any effect on their ability to donate labor and engineering support? Perhaps the article isn't nuanced enough to make the distinction.

I hate to judge the situation without knowing all the facts, but it seems like the robotics team may have become the pawn in a political dispute.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Cory

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that Beatty Mfg would drop all support of the team. I can see that the money could be going away, but why would their subsidiary closing have any effect on their ability to donate labor and engineering support? Perhaps the article isn't nuanced enough to make the distinction.

I hate to judge the situation without knowing all the facts, but it seems like the robotics team may have become the pawn in a political dispute.

I also am hesitant to put words down on this without at all knowing the full story, but I agree with your confusion. It just doesn't make sense to me to play it in such a hardline fashion. It just feels very political.

[BrendanB]

We shall see and all we can do is hope that 71 continues in FRC through finding other financial resources. None of us know how much Beatty contributed to team 71 year to year financially. This happens to a lot of FRC team and it can still happen to yours.

Considering no one here lives in the city of Hammond it is hard to weigh in on what is going on there. It sounds like there are two distinct sides of this destroying small business but the scrapyard could be contributing to a large amount of theft/crime for people looking to make a quick dollar in this rough economy.

Every decision has a good and bad side and unfortunately the bad side here hurts team 71. Good luck guys!

[Ekcrbe]

Keep fighting Hammond. We all hope Team 71 will find a way to get by. I don't think tragedy can describe what would happen if Hammond lost its team.

[KelliV]

Having known the many of the mentors, students, and parents of 71 for years I can say that both myself and my family were heartbroken at the thought of them dissolving.

But then I remembered, they aren't a team that will just sit by and be railroaded by something like this, and we aren't a community that will let that happen to any team, four world Championships or not. I have full faith that Team 71 will persevere and come back next year with a robot built of PVC that is a force to be reckoned with. You can take part of a team's funding away, but you cannot take away the will of a community to better their youth, or a team's drive to win.

A team isn't who funds it. A team is the people who are on it, and I am hard pressed to find better people than those on 71. I look forward to seeing them next year.

-Kelli