Go to Post Here's some food for thought: Does your FRC program need the students, or do the students need your FRC program? - sanddrag [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Technical Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-08-2012, 21:37
Manoel's Avatar
Manoel Manoel is offline
Registered User
FRC #0383 (Brazilian Machine)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil
Posts: 608
Manoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond reputeManoel has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via ICQ to Manoel Send a message via MSN to Manoel
"Gearing for speed" criticism

Top speed is one of the most common metrics used in the FIRST Robotics Competition; yet, the problem is that the great majority of teams design their drive trains considering only the steady-state speed of the system, easily calculated by determining the operating point of the torque-speed curve of the motor (sometimes using a "desired" operating point such as the rule-of-thumb 75% of free speed, seldom using the wheel's coefficient of friction). Given the power-to-weight ratio we're allowed by the rules, the time constant of our robots is not negligible and, thus, it is important to consider the dynamics of the system.
From time to time some people do point out to unexperienced designers that "yeah, your final speed is great, but how long does it take to get there?". This remark only gives a qualitative analysis, though. I propose a different way to look at the problem: How far will your robot travel in x seconds?

Consider a 2012 FRC robot with maximum weight (120 lbs + 15 lbs battery and 15 lbs bumpers) and this configuration:
4 CIM motors driving two CIMple gearboxes, N (N doesn't really matter as long as they are all powered) HiGrip FIRST Wheels with a 26 tooth sprocket attached. The following graph demonstrates the distance traveled in three seconds by a robot with varying coefficients of friction (from 0.8 to 1.5) and gearbox sprocket (8 - OK, no such thing - to 26 teeth):


(distance equal to zero means the gearing is such that the robot cannot overcome friction)


It can be seen that, for each coefficient of friction, there's an optimal sprocket selection that will make the robot move as far as possible in a given time frame. AndyMark states that the coefficient of friction of the HiGrip wheels is around 0.95-1.0*. Let's take a look at the distance a robot travels in three seconds using those wheels:


The gearing selection by AndyMark, with a 12-teeth sprocket, is pretty close to the optimal one, 10-teeth (in a three-second run, that's about 9 inches you lose in the worst-case). I would love to hear from Andy or Mark if that's just a fortunate coincidence or if they did in fact take that into account. If so, why choose the 12-tooth over the 10-tooth sprocket?
Another thing that can be readily seen is that if a good-willing but uninformed designer decides to "increase" the speed of his robot by buying a larger sprocket he actually ends up with a robot that covers LESS ground in the same amount of time.

* Notes on coefficient of friction: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=107759
__________________
Manoel Flores da Cunha
Mentor
Brazilian Machine
Team # 383
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:52.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi