Advice for a team that has lost its school

[Arefin Bari]

The very exact incident happened with my last year's rookie team. Let's discuss this over pm and I can put you in touch with the lead mentor from that team.

[Akash Rastogi]

Have you discussed with school admin why they won't allow funding to pass through the school? I really agree with what Al said. It is YOUR school. You should find out why this decision was made. Our team's school in Philadelphia had no problem running money for us, but were simply unable to give us space. They still supported us even though we worked elsewhere. Definitely find out what went wrong and how it can be fixed for the new season. Even if they can't give you a work space (not an entirely huge deal since you can work out of anyone's garage) they should be helping you pass funds to the team.

If the school administration won't hear you out, go higher up. Contact your school board and get assistance.

Good luck!

[ebarker]

I did a little digging around and reading about your school. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that your school is 'no slouch' and is aspiring to greatness. ( there are plenty of schools satisfied with the status quo ).

If I interpret their website correctly your fundamental problem isn't that they don't support the team. Your team's fundamental problem is the administration doesn't "get it" !!

They probably do not have an understanding of the FIRST mission, why it is important to our future and how the school and students are a part of the solution. They almost certainly view the team as bunch of nerdy hobbyists and do not connect it to national priorities.

They have not gotten the message : from their website

It is your team's responsibility to educate them. I would suggest enlisting a cool headed mentor that is good at communications and ask for their support in conveying the message.

The school measures their success by the academic scores of their student and the college placements they make.

The national stakeholders of FIRST, the over 3,500 companies and Universities that partner with FIRST have another opinion on the subject. And that opinion is that if you are going to make bold statements like on their web page ( listed above ) and it doesn't have FIRST and/or a similar high profile STEM activities listed, then they are just blowing a lot of smoke.

It they were a 'normal' school I could see them they acting the way they do. But if they are going to "talk the talk" then they are going to have to "walk the walk".

Re-think the issue and figure out how to explain it to them.

[JaneYoung]

To help strengthen the sustainability of your team, the primary focus right now should be in pursuing the non-profit status. Even if you use another program's (example, 4-H) for that, your team must build its own support system to help it handle changes and challenges that occur. Either I have overlooked or I haven't found in your posts, that you have a booster club or group to help your team with fundraising or obtaining sponsors and grants. You can have strong outside support from parents and friends of the team but that support could leave or dwindle when the students graduate. By creating a formal group, it brings added and (hopefully) consistent strength and support to the team, helping with the financial ends of things in setting, managing, and achieving short-term and long-term goals.

Jane

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by ebarker

The school measures their success by the academic scores of their student and the college placements they make.

Thanks for doing the digging on this one, Ed.

It might help you if you present other top schools from the nation who have FRC teams within the school.

Part of the reason why last year it was incredibly difficult for us to operate 3929 at Masterman High School was due to the administration not fully understanding what we could bring to the school. JR Masterman is the #1 ranked school in Pennsylvania by US News and the 14th Magnet school in the country. It took us a whole build season and several awards to show them what the team was capable of bringing into the culture of the school. It also required us having their top ranked students as our team captains. Some schools care so much about their rankings, test results, and reputation, that they are not willing to bring in new programs that may disrupt the current lives and routines of their students.

I know you can also use 469's school as an example, I forget what other highly ranked schools have FRC teams. There is a list somewhere on CD though, if I recall correctly. I'll try to find it and edit this post.

found it - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=79265

Keep in mind, those rankings are a bit arbitrary as posters in that thread said, but it shouldn't stop you from using it to your advantage and showing your school that high ranked schools have FRC teams as well.

Hope that helps!

[TheOtherGuy]

I'm a college mentor for 4183. I've been a bit busy the past week or so setting up some work for my senior capstone project, so I haven't been able to keep in touch with the team since we got the news. From hearsay, it appears that the school doesn't want to deal with financing a team whose budget is in the mid 5-digits, as the school is relatively small and most clubs require little resources. So, I do believe that with a little push, we could get our club reinstated with the school.

That said, I've also had time to think about the formation of a 501(c)3 organization. Now, I'm very split on the issue, so I'd like to open the discussion up a little more: would it be more beneficial for a team to continue their affiliation with a school, or create a city-wide non-profit organization open to students from any school (provided both are available options)?

I'm actually leaning towards the non-profit. BASIS, fantastic as it is, doesn't have an enormous need for a FIRST team (almost 100% of students, if not that, make it into college, and quite a few in STEM areas). By forming a local organization, we can recruit students from lower income areas, have more freedom with our finances and work space, and enable the club to exist uncontested. My old FRC team is in their 8th year and now on their 5th teacher sponsor. Although they're still successful, I've noticed the well known teams have a consistent mentor/teacher base that enables them to be stable for much longer periods.

The way I see it, we can either fight for our right to be a team, or we can turn this little push by the administration around and become a much stronger, community-based team. Opinions?

[ebarker]

Treat the administration support and the financial / 501(c)3 items as two different entities.

You want the administration and the whole school to be supportive of the team regardless of how the finances are handled.

There is a broad definition of support. It could be moral, financial, space, or other.

Regarding the financials - the school could make a decision to support your money handling even if they don't care much for the team. There are actually a lot of teams in this position.

If the school doesn't want to handle money, you could probably become a 4-H team and let the local 4-H chapter handle the money. Another agent that might could handle the money is the Community Foundation of Southern Arizon.

Having your own 501(c)3 has its benefits but there is a management overhead that has to be handled. It isn't a license for financial looseness and you will have to properly be prepared to handle money and make annual IRS filings.

Long term having your own 501(c)3 is the way to go but your team has a lot of ducks to get in a row, the 1st being earning support from the school, at least moral support. Having the team and administration being at odds is not a position of 1st resort.

Reading their fact sheet they proudly talk about their alumni going to schools like MIT and current students discussing thermodynamics in class. If there are going to support roller derby, robotics should be a cakewalk.

[sandiegodan]

FIRST just made a big deal out of an Alliance with Boys and Girls Club, you might try that route. I'm working to start a team at our local branch and they are being very accomodating so far.

Good luck,

[Alpha Beta]

Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy

From hearsay, it appears that the school doesn't want to deal with financing a team whose budget is in the mid 5-digits, as the school is relatively small and most clubs require little resources. So, I do believe that with a little push, we could get our club reinstated with the school.

Our school has never provided us with 5 figure financial support. They do provide a minor stipend for 2 adults (less than a single season JV coach each) to help stabilize the teacher liaison and establish a chain of command for the school administration to work with. They have also been generous with bus transportation expenses and serve as a clearing house for some of the financial donations we receive. Most of the finances for the team come from corporate donations, grants, and student fundraising initiatives.

I'd stick with the school if you can bring in outside donations to finance the team. They are already a rallying point for the community and a recruiting platform for new members.

(Last year the school district did outlay a large amount of capital to provide a stable build facility the team could use year round. This only came after the team demonstrated stability, passion, and success for the program.)

Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy

My old FRC team is in their 8th year and now on their 5th teacher sponsor. Although they're still successful, I've noticed the well known teams have a consistent mentor/teacher base that enables them to be stable for much longer periods.

We had 4 different head coaches in our first 4 years. All of them are still supportive of the program, but for one reason or another needed to change their role or association with the team. The key for us was finding ways to spread out the responsibilities so that no 1 person got burned out and give people who are passionate in an area the autonomy to make that part of the program great. We've had the same head coach for 3 years in a row now and it does make a positive difference.

[z_beeblebrox]

Our school didn't give us tens of thousands of dollars. It only acted as a bank for them.

[OZ_341]

Ed B. makes a very good point about separating the concepts of school support and money. They are related but very different.
There are so many things you can obtain by gaining the support of your school that go beyond finances.
Requests for local bus transportation, time off from classes or a work space will be valid requests if you remain a part of your school culture. You may not get everything you ask for this season, but you will gain a little bit of ground each year. That is what we have done at our school.
Our strong support is the result of 14 years of very organized "nagging".

[Ekcrbe]

Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy

That said, I've also had time to think about the formation of a 501(c)3 organization. Now, I'm very split on the issue, so I'd like to open the discussion up a little more: would it be more beneficial for a team to continue their affiliation with a school, or create a city-wide non-profit organization open to students from any school (provided both are available options)?
...
The way I see it, we can either fight for our right to be a team, or we can turn this little push by the administration around and become a much stronger, community-based team. Opinions?

Stay in your school. Looking at my own team as an example, recruiting is many times easier from in a school. We are based exclusively out of Brandon High School, but we also accept students from Holly High School. We still go do demos and push the administration as much as we can at Holly, but we only have about five Holly students out of thirty on the team, most likely because of a lack of presence. Brandon, while not quite a supportive student body, has much more chance to get exposed through our display cases and word of mouth from students and our two affiliated teachers, plus our official school demos.