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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-08-2012, 12:49
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

Something I forgot on my comments, when transitioning from a school team to a community team, there will likely be contention over team assets like robot parts, tools, etc. I've seen this happen a couple times and it is usually a messy process.

Once you are a community team, asset ownership becomes better defined... Hopefully. As our team recently found out, you want to consider what would happen if your teams assets are stolen. They aren't covered by your schools insurance anymore. Fortunately/unfortunately we expect ours to be covered by home owners insurance, not the ifeal situation.
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Unread 24-08-2012, 13:34
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

We faced a similar situation last season. At the end of the school year, 2011, our only teacher's program was terminated. Fortunately he was able to stay on as a teacher but we lost our classroom and our build room. We moved everything into storage. We started to seek out our own 501c3, and created our own non-profit with the state. Before beginning the process for the 501c3 we partnered up with our local community foundation. They receive our donations and grants and either purchase or reimburse us. We are still connected to the school so our students still receive excused abscenses. But we do not work at the school. We were able to find some local retail space in a mall that we are leasing at very good discount. We love this because it allows us to be able to actively promote FIRST in the general public as well as provide more opportunities to host events and workshops for the region.

My suggestion would be to at least have a teacher sponsor for the program to maintain that connection, but look for external space for meetings, build, workshops, training, etc.
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Unread 25-08-2012, 01:01
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

Unfortunately, our school is not interested in working with us in any way, beyond helping us with recruiting. Therefore, we are unlikely to have problems with recruiting. Our main challenges are finding build space and money (and an organization to manage the money).
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Unread 25-08-2012, 01:46
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

Have you considered, staying and fighting for your right to have a team?
Quite often the decision to drop a program is the misguided opinion of one or two school administrators. You might be able to find support elsewhere in your district and then approach those that are opposed in a positive way. Bringing more people into the conversation may convince the wider community that FIRST is a Win-Win proposition for your school.
You could gather local support and attend a school board meeting. You could enlist the support of other teams, your Regional Director, your parent groups, and make a pitch to those in charge. My advice is to gather allies and positive data then mount a strong and assertive, but respectful campaign, based on facts and results. FIRST and other local teams might be able to provide advice. You are not alone and you might be amazed at the support that you build, by speaking out in a positive way. It seems like you don't have much to lose at this point. Don't give up your school without a fight. It's YOUR school.
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Unread 25-08-2012, 09:19
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

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Originally Posted by Jimmy Nichols View Post
We are still connected to the school so our students still receive excused abscenses.
You mean you are allowed to skip school to build robots?
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Unread 25-08-2012, 11:42
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

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Originally Posted by sebflippers View Post
You mean you are allowed to skip school to build robots?
Jimmy Nichols is on another team, but I assume that it means they can skip school to go to competitions.
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Unread 25-08-2012, 19:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z_beeblebrox View Post
Unfortunately, our school is not interested in working with us in any way, beyond helping us with recruiting. Therefore, we are unlikely to have problems with recruiting. Our main challenges are finding build space and money (and an organization to manage the money).
Even as a club? Weird.

Well, I can say as a mentor that this is tough. We started in Yuma as a community team partnered with our community college. We had a tiny storage room and a classroom. Luckily my work allowed us to bring the students in and work on the robot. Last year, the community college didn't support us with a space (they never gave us money) so we went looking for high schools. Only one would help us with a room. We had an old lab room and access to the weld shop. That was more than we could ask for. Now this year we are officially their team but still let any schools students join (very important to me). This is the first year we're taking advantage of the tax donations that we never had before.

Hopefully you find a place and well see you at the AZ regional again.
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Unread 25-08-2012, 19:36
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

The very exact incident happened with my last year's rookie team. Let's discuss this over pm and I can put you in touch with the lead mentor from that team.
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Unread 25-08-2012, 20:11
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

Have you discussed with school admin why they won't allow funding to pass through the school? I really agree with what Al said. It is YOUR school. You should find out why this decision was made. Our team's school in Philadelphia had no problem running money for us, but were simply unable to give us space. They still supported us even though we worked elsewhere. Definitely find out what went wrong and how it can be fixed for the new season. Even if they can't give you a work space (not an entirely huge deal since you can work out of anyone's garage) they should be helping you pass funds to the team.

If the school administration won't hear you out, go higher up. Contact your school board and get assistance.

Good luck!
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  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2012, 21:56
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

I did a little digging around and reading about your school. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that your school is 'no slouch' and is aspiring to greatness. ( there are plenty of schools satisfied with the status quo ).

If I interpret their website correctly your fundamental problem isn't that they don't support the team. Your team's fundamental problem is the administration doesn't "get it" !!

They probably do not have an understanding of the FIRST mission, why it is important to our future and how the school and students are a part of the solution. They almost certainly view the team as bunch of nerdy hobbyists and do not connect it to national priorities.

They have not gotten the message : from their website

It is your team's responsibility to educate them. I would suggest enlisting a cool headed mentor that is good at communications and ask for their support in conveying the message.

The school measures their success by the academic scores of their student and the college placements they make.

The national stakeholders of FIRST, the over 3,500 companies and Universities that partner with FIRST have another opinion on the subject. And that opinion is that if you are going to make bold statements like on their web page ( listed above ) and it doesn't have FIRST and/or a similar high profile STEM activities listed, then they are just blowing a lot of smoke.

It they were a 'normal' school I could see them they acting the way they do. But if they are going to "talk the talk" then they are going to have to "walk the walk".

Re-think the issue and figure out how to explain it to them.
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Last edited by ebarker : 26-08-2012 at 20:44.
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Unread 25-08-2012, 22:58
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

To help strengthen the sustainability of your team, the primary focus right now should be in pursuing the non-profit status. Even if you use another program's (example, 4-H) for that, your team must build its own support system to help it handle changes and challenges that occur. Either I have overlooked or I haven't found in your posts, that you have a booster club or group to help your team with fundraising or obtaining sponsors and grants. You can have strong outside support from parents and friends of the team but that support could leave or dwindle when the students graduate. By creating a formal group, it brings added and (hopefully) consistent strength and support to the team, helping with the financial ends of things in setting, managing, and achieving short-term and long-term goals.

Jane
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Unread 26-08-2012, 00:34
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

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Originally Posted by ebarker View Post
The school measures their success by the academic scores of their student and the college placements they make.
Thanks for doing the digging on this one, Ed.

It might help you if you present other top schools from the nation who have FRC teams within the school.

Part of the reason why last year it was incredibly difficult for us to operate 3929 at Masterman High School was due to the administration not fully understanding what we could bring to the school. JR Masterman is the #1 ranked school in Pennsylvania by US News and the 14th Magnet school in the country. It took us a whole build season and several awards to show them what the team was capable of bringing into the culture of the school. It also required us having their top ranked students as our team captains. Some schools care so much about their rankings, test results, and reputation, that they are not willing to bring in new programs that may disrupt the current lives and routines of their students.

I know you can also use 469's school as an example, I forget what other highly ranked schools have FRC teams. There is a list somewhere on CD though, if I recall correctly. I'll try to find it and edit this post.

found it - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=79265

Keep in mind, those rankings are a bit arbitrary as posters in that thread said, but it shouldn't stop you from using it to your advantage and showing your school that high ranked schools have FRC teams as well.

Hope that helps!
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Last edited by Akash Rastogi : 26-08-2012 at 00:36.
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Unread 26-08-2012, 14:57
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

I'm a college mentor for 4183. I've been a bit busy the past week or so setting up some work for my senior capstone project, so I haven't been able to keep in touch with the team since we got the news. From hearsay, it appears that the school doesn't want to deal with financing a team whose budget is in the mid 5-digits, as the school is relatively small and most clubs require little resources. So, I do believe that with a little push, we could get our club reinstated with the school.

That said, I've also had time to think about the formation of a 501(c)3 organization. Now, I'm very split on the issue, so I'd like to open the discussion up a little more: would it be more beneficial for a team to continue their affiliation with a school, or create a city-wide non-profit organization open to students from any school (provided both are available options)?

I'm actually leaning towards the non-profit. BASIS, fantastic as it is, doesn't have an enormous need for a FIRST team (almost 100% of students, if not that, make it into college, and quite a few in STEM areas). By forming a local organization, we can recruit students from lower income areas, have more freedom with our finances and work space, and enable the club to exist uncontested. My old FRC team is in their 8th year and now on their 5th teacher sponsor. Although they're still successful, I've noticed the well known teams have a consistent mentor/teacher base that enables them to be stable for much longer periods.

The way I see it, we can either fight for our right to be a team, or we can turn this little push by the administration around and become a much stronger, community-based team. Opinions?
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Unread 26-08-2012, 16:22
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

Treat the administration support and the financial / 501(c)3 items as two different entities.

You want the administration and the whole school to be supportive of the team regardless of how the finances are handled.

There is a broad definition of support. It could be moral, financial, space, or other.

Regarding the financials - the school could make a decision to support your money handling even if they don't care much for the team. There are actually a lot of teams in this position.

If the school doesn't want to handle money, you could probably become a 4-H team and let the local 4-H chapter handle the money. Another agent that might could handle the money is the Community Foundation of Southern Arizon.

Having your own 501(c)3 has its benefits but there is a management overhead that has to be handled. It isn't a license for financial looseness and you will have to properly be prepared to handle money and make annual IRS filings.

Long term having your own 501(c)3 is the way to go but your team has a lot of ducks to get in a row, the 1st being earning support from the school, at least moral support. Having the team and administration being at odds is not a position of 1st resort.

Reading their fact sheet they proudly talk about their alumni going to schools like MIT and current students discussing thermodynamics in class. If there are going to support roller derby, robotics should be a cakewalk.
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Last edited by ebarker : 26-08-2012 at 16:25.
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Unread 26-08-2012, 18:56
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Re: Advice for a team that has lost its school

FIRST just made a big deal out of an Alliance with Boys and Girls Club, you might try that route. I'm working to start a team at our local branch and they are being very accomodating so far.

Good luck,
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