Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?

[Gregor]

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/...kids-out-of-it

The Ontario Secondary Teacher's Federation has announced that all extracurricular activities are to be boycotted, effective no later than Monday December 10. Teachers can be fined by their union for going against this.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Gregor

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/...kids-out-of-it

The Ontario Secondary Teacher's Federation has announced that all extracurricular activities are to be boycotted, effective no later than Monday December 10. Teachers can be fined by their union for going against this.

How large is the fine?

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

How large is the fine?

Crossing a picket line is a risky move regardless of fines. It can cause grudges with a union that can work against you for years.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Jared341

Crossing a picket line is a risky move regardless of fines. It can cause grudges with a union that can work against you for years.

Yeah I'm just wondering what the union is threatening them with.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

How large is the fine?

To Jared's point, violation can result in open publication of their name as well as suspension of union services. The fine itself is up to $500/day.

News article

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Siri

To Jared's point, violation can result in open publication of their name as well as suspension of union services. The fine itself is up to $500/day.

News article

So sad that they can do this. I wish these teams and their teachers good luck.

[xitaqua]

In my personal opinion we are going to see much greater financial challenges for robotics teams. Although I agree that we should not try to use Chief Delphi for a political discussion, I do think we as mentors, need to be involved in politics if we want to move the STEAM agenda ahead.

In the past few months I have been encouraging folks in my community to be involved in local politics and I, myself have decided to run for school board.

So if you think the political environment is not better for robotics than in the past, I would encourage for those that have the experience, knowledge and a servant heart, to run for public office and make your community an great community thru robotics and STEAM education.

Cheers,
MC. - In April , vote for MC for school Board.

[Racer26]

2013 ought to be an interesting year for the FRC community in Ontario. Some teachers will (quite rightly) tell their union to shove it, and continue FRCing regardless of the consequences (real or imagined) it might carry. Other teams may sit the year out (or become extinct), while others will turn to their mentors in industry to carry the load.

Teams whose lead mentors are not directly affiliated with their school and have a non-teacher's-union controlled place to work, such as 1114, Karthik (who works for IFIs Canadian Office), and their closed DSBN school gymnasium practice facility, shared with 2056 and the rest of NiagaraFIRST, will likely weather the storm whilst ruffling the fewest feathers with the union.

ETFO (The Elementary Teacher's Federation of Ontario) members in Simcoe county (Barrie area) started a work-to-rule effective yesterday.

OSSTF (The Ontario Secondary School Teacher's Federation) is expected to follow suit.

[Racer26]

More related info: Grade 6,7,8 students at a Barrie area elementary school staged a walkout yesterday in protest of Bill 115 and Their Teachers taking away their extra-curriculars.

Expect to see more student walkouts in the coming weeks.

[akoscielski3]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

More related info: Grade 6,7,8 students at a Barrie area elementary school staged a walkout yesterday in protest of Bill 115 and Their Teachers taking away their extra-curriculars.

Expect to see more student walkouts in the coming weeks.

Windsor has a walkout on Monday.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Is there a reason you can't run the teams without the schools? They shouldn't be able to hold your funding hostage.

As easy as that sounds, it isn't so simple.

1. Who would supervise us?
2. Where can we get access to a shop?
3. Who would supervise us(again)?
4. How would we miss school for competition, as parents don't like unexcused absences.
5. What if someone gets hurt?
6. What about insurance?
7. What about storage?

Another huge problem would be figuring out who "owns" the current robot and material? The school does (in most cases), so we would be starting from scratch. We would need new everything, from a cRIO to plywood to aluminum to wheels.

And to make matters even worse, we have less than 4 months to kickoff to sort this out, and I'm sure there are many other problems that I have missed.

So yes, there are multiple reasons as to why teams can't run without school support.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Gregor

As easy as that sounds, it isn't so simple.

1. Who would supervise us?
2. Where can we get access to a shop?
3. Who would supervise us(again)?
4. How would we miss school for competition, as parents don't like unexcused absences.
5. What if someone gets hurt?
6. What about insurance?
7. What about storage?

Another huge problem would be figuring out who "owns" the current robot and material? The school does (in most cases), so we would be starting from scratch. We would need new everything, from a cRIO to plywood to aluminum to wheels.

And to make matters even worse, we have less than 4 months to kickoff to sort this out, and I'm sure there are many other problems that I have missed.

So yes, there are multiple reasons as to why teams can't run without school support.

I hope the teachers get things sorted out so life goes back to normal but as you said, you do have 4 months which is better than no time!

1. Have your current leaders up and left or is this under assumption. Parents? Sponsors?

2. Who says you need a metal shop to make a robot? There are a ton of successful teams that operate out of garages, vacant buildings, and parents basements using hand tools, power tools, and a chop saw. It can be done my first team has been in their coaches basement for 8 seasons with much success!

3. See 1.

4. Talk to your principle/head of your school.

5. Good question! This may depend on where you end up meeting/working out of. Even when we met at our coaches house we signed liability forms and had shop training.

6. You have me there!

7. Depends on your workspace but if you keep it organized you won't need much space.

I wish it was easier to answer these questions but maybe you should also talk to other teams in your area and around Ontario.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

I hope the teachers get things sorted out so life goes back to normal

The teachers are completely in the right doing this. Its the Government of Ontario that needs to get things sorted out.

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Have your current leaders up and left or is this under assumption.

No, our current leaders have not left at this time, but I'm talking about Ontario teams in general, not my specific team.

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Maybe you should also talk to other teams in your area and around Ontario.

Part of the reason I wrote the above post is because I have talked to a few members of some other Ontario teams. The general consensus is"oh we will just split from the school." I'm trying to convoy that this isn't as easy as it sounds.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Gregor

The teachers are completely in the right doing this. Its the Government of Ontario that needs to get things sorted out.



No, our current leaders have not left at this time, but I'm talking about Ontario teams in general, not my specific team.



Part of the reason I wrote the above post is because I have talked to a few members of some other Ontario teams. The general consensus is"oh we will just split from the school." I'm trying to convoy that this isn't as easy as it sounds.

I never said who was at fault. I don't know a lot about either side so I'm not going to comment about who needs to fix a side. My comment was more towards fixing the problem.

Thats good that you still have your team leaders!

Yes and no. I haven't witnessed a team splitting from a school but I have been on both teams (school based and community). It is hard to look into a team and say how difficult or easy it would be to move out from your school. Some teams have known resources at their fingertips that they use outside of the school or have the ability to use but haven't yet.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Gregor

As easy as that sounds, it isn't so simple.

1. Who would supervise us?
2. Where can we get access to a shop?
3. Who would supervise us(again)?
4. How would we miss school for competition, as parents don't like unexcused absences.
5. What if someone gets hurt?
6. What about insurance?
7. What about storage?

Another huge problem would be figuring out who "owns" the current robot and material? The school does (in most cases), so we would be starting from scratch. We would need new everything, from a cRIO to plywood to aluminum to wheels.

And to make matters even worse, we have less than 4 months to kickoff to sort this out, and I'm sure there are many other problems that I have missed.

So yes, there are multiple reasons as to why teams can't run without school support.

I guess I still don't understand completely but that might be a difference in Canadian versus US schools.

Whether the teachers refuse to participate in extra-curricular activities or not, the team's money is the team's money and can't be held hostage. Unless the team's money is primarily coming from the school. Even in that case, here in the states many school administrations (upper management) don't fall under the union umbrella: as a result if you were here in the states you should still be able to get your funding.

Not having a full machine shop hurts, but I'd wager dollars to donuts in the 3 months prior to the start of the season you could find someone to donate machining time. Build in someone's pole barn or garage is pretty do-able to.

Frankly, school absences are no big deal. It all comes down to a balance: is a handful of days at school (of which you'll spend thousands in your life) more important than FIRST?

Again, maybe I'm not seeing the forest through the trees, or maybe circumstances differ in Canadian schools. I think you guys can pull yourselves together, show some good old FIRST initiative and get 'er done.

Edit: It sounds like the threatened extracurricular strike is only elementary teachers and only one day, that's good news.