Shop Tools, Hand Tools, HELP?

[Cory]

There should be a number of threads out there with a lot of the information you're looking for. I'm not sure if they have information on specific models of tools though.

3 in 1 machines are junk. Avoid them like the plague. You're basically throwing money out that you could save for quality machinery.

I would not purchase corded drills. The technology is such in cordless drills that there is no reason to purchase corded. We got rid of a corded drill we had because it had so much torque it was unsafe for inexperienced users.

You really don't need a sliding miter saw. We have this. $200 and it works great. High quality. Throw a nice carbide tipped blade on there and you can easily cut aluminum tube (absolutely do NOT cut solid/ferrous metal with any miter saw).

We purchased one of those 20 ton presses like mentioned earlier, used it for a year, and then gave it away. It's super inconvenient due to the limited travel of the bottle jack, as well as slop in the ram because of the construction method.

I would see if you can get the sponsor to just grant you the money, as opposed to them purchasing tools off a list. It makes more sense to add tools as you discover you need them, instead of trying to cover everything up front. Inevitably you will end up with a lot of tools you rarely/never use if you do the latter.

As soon as you cover your basic tool needs and are looking for machine tools I would purchase a lathe.

[rondinol]

Have you considered a second drill bit set and a drill bit sharpener? They may seem unnecessary but with drill bits many students tend to break them and leave them laying around. Leave one out and one kind of hidden away for that moment when you need that one size bit.

Furthermore with many tools being used bits tend to get dull and there becomes a collective pile of dull drill bits which tends not to be to fun to deal with.

These aren't necessarily but useful none the less.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by George C

A great off-season activity is to build your own. http://www.reprap.org/wiki/RepRap We're in the process of building our 2nd. It costs about $600 to build one from scratch using linear bearings. The one we have draws a crowd at events. Once you have one, you can use it to print parts for more.

Might be a bit more than that--I was trying to come up with a number for how much a Mendel Basic (which is a RepRap printer) would cost if the plastic parts are already built, and came up with about $1K for everything. Admittedly, I didn't shop around much--the site I linked before, if you click on the "Store" tab, has almost all of the kit parts/electronics. The cost comes down if you find more local/cheaper sources. (The other thing about that site: The customer service is outstanding.) They ship a full-up printer, verified to work and fully assembled, for about $2000, so if a sponsor is funding it, it isn't a whole big chunk of budget.


The storage thing is something that you'll have to decide, but what I would do is be able to bring as much of the stuff as you can. That means portable toolboxes, rolling or not, that you can take out of the shop and stick in a vehicle. One set of tools probably isn't going to be enough at the competition. Bring 3. That's also where the KOP bins come in; they stack nicely under a table. When I was on a college engineering competition team, about the only thing from the shop we didn't take to competition was the workbench--we brought folding tables in the trailer instead. Figured if we didn't need it, someone else did.

Gray, I think you've got it reversed. I know of teams who've gone years with a miter/chop combo saw and no vertical bandsaw--about the only thing it can't do is turning cuts. That's why I put a Dremel (OP, take note--I'd put that at a 1 and it's fairly cheap) on the list, as it's a highly versatile tool that can help with making turning cuts. The Bridgeport instead of a drill press--Sorry, but a used Bridgeport can run in the $2500-$5000 range and that's without tooling. A 2-axis vice for a drill press can give some mill functionality; you just have to go slower when cutting a slot. And like I said, without knowing how much space they've got available, I'm willing to bet that a mill will take up an awful lot of it.

[who716]

if you are on a tight budget, and you could only get like one or two machines i would go for a Drill press, so that your holes are more accuretly and drilling goes quicker and also a verticle band saw as for our team it saves us much time to just turn on the bandsaw cut a streight line or an acurretly cut angle then to use a hack saw.

[protoserge]

I think you need to quantify your need. For instance, "many more drills" could mean two or twenty. Look at how many sub-teams will be working on the robot and how many will be required to use the tool.


What productive capacity can the tools be used for?

I honestly don't believe in welding for FRC robot frames anymore and I find it a risk for students that is unnecessary (PPE, ventilation, sunburn). If this is a construction method, I feel it's best to outsource to a properly trained professional. I'll caveat that with the understanding being there are vo-tech students which may be able to accomplish this task as the exception.

Judging by what you've laid out, I would suggest taking your list and narrowing it down based on the importance of the tool, the number of tasks it can be use used for, and the quantity/cost associated. For example, a regular cordless drill can be used for 5 tasks in the build vs. a specialty tool that performs the same basic function, but isn't required (e.g. right angle drill). This would rate the cordless drill higher than a right angle drill.

If you do get cordless tools, look at the brand and the tools available. Stick with one brand to save on battery charger footprint, as well as allow for battery interchangeability.

My personal recommendation for a small-medium team (20-30):

Tools requiring only hands:

1. Auto-centering punch (qty 2) $3 each at Harbor Freight
2. 14.4V Drill - you don't need 18V and the lower weight will be nice over time (qty 3) + drill bits in common sizes (clearance and taps for standard hardware)
3. Ball-peen hammer (qty 2)
4. Straight Edge/T-square (qty 2)
5. Digital 6" Calipers (qty 3) ~$15 each Amazon/HF (Also buy a 100pk of batteries for ~$8 from Amazon, the LR44 die very quickly in the HF units)
6. Vise Grips (qty 4-6)
7. Hack Saw (qty 2)
8. Allen Set (usually cheaper in the set) (qty 3)
9. Socket Set (personal preference; cheaper in set)
10. Additional sockets and wrenches in common sizes for your robot (for#6, #8, #10, 1/4" hardware)

Shop tools requiring facility resources:

1. Drill press
2. Band saw
3. Press break
4. Sheet metal shear
5. Arbor press (bushings and keyways) NOTE: keyway broach sets are expensive.
6. Belt sander
7. Disc grinder
8. HF 7x12 lathe (#93799)

I highly recommend the Harbor Freight tool carts (with the associated high reviews). They are high quality and very durable.

I'm absolutely certain I didn't get everything, but hopefully you find my post a little useful.

[Akash Rastogi]

Seeing as how my team's bandsaw and drillpress were reported stolen today...


Invest in securing your belongings

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Seeing as how my team's bandsaw and drillpress were reported stolen today...


Invest in securing your belongings

Slight derailment...how do you steal a bandsaw and drillpress?

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Slight derailment...how do you steal a bandsaw and drillpress?

Some crook breaks in when nobody is around and he and a buddy haul it away in a generic white panel van. Since a stolen saw and a used saw look the same, it's an easy fence on their part.

I've heard of robots gettign stolen for scrap metal even... Please teams, do secure your stuff!

[Phyrxes]

A drywall square is also handy for dealing with plywood or sheet plastic in the sizes you may end up working with.

We picked up a couple things from Grizzly and have been happy with the two items below thus far this offseason.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-Vise-Brake/H3245
http://www.grizzly.com/products/30-M...y-Bender/G9952

[Cuog]

Some things you need to look at before blowing a bunch of money on tools is what do you have to work with, and where do you feel you're currently falling short?

First is space. How much space do you have to work with that you can permanently setup with your tools/machines/workbenches? If you have very little, you'll want to stick with small hand tools and a locking tool box with some cordless drills, and a nice bench vice(actually just get a nice bench vice, they're always good).

Secondly what mentor support do you have? I see you're looking at welding equipment, mill, lathe etc. These tools are great, can expand your capacity, and can be very safe when used properly. When used incorrectly things can go very bad very quick. If you don't have at least one mentor(better 2+) who plan to stick around and help teach and supervise the use of these machines then getting them will be a Very Bad Idea(tm).

Third Power, small bench-top machines can run off standard 15A 120V outlets. Larger lathes and mills will often require 240V, triple phase power, and sometimes even higher voltages. Part of why these machines sell for around the cost of the bench-top hobby equipment is because a hobbyist cant as easily support their power requirements. Welders can be particularly challenging as well. Even ones that run on 120V can draw a lot of current and pop breakers if there's other stuff on that circuit(do you really know the circuit layout at your school?). I can promise you having to call maintenance to reset breakers for you is not going to win you friends.

Finally when looking at a Mill and Lathe in particular do not forget the cost of tooling. To get well tooled and be able to start working with these machines will cost you AT LEAST what you spent on the machine in accessory tooling.


If I were starting with nothing, and had mentors with only some general knowledge of tools here's the order I would spend my money:

Tool box: something like this: http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/6-Draw...l-Chest/T10140

Mechanics Tool Set: craftsmen is a good middle of the road brand, you want full metric and SAE wrenches ratchets and sockets as well as a good assortment of screw drivers. Buy extras in the sizes you use most.

Hex key sets: Again I reccomend craftsmen for mid range, go for snapon/mac if you can afford it. Again you want both SAE and metric with extras in your most used sizes.

Cordless Drill: There's a lot out there that's great, I think DeWalt makes some nice lithium battery drills that most folks I know with them love. If you buy multiple buy the same so you can buy spare batteries most efficiently.

Full Drill Set in metric or SAE, both if you can afford it. These are usually ~100 dollars and have on of everything up to about a half inch dia.

Center Punch

Measuring tools: Big to small: some good length measuring tapes, a couple yard sticks, some metal ~ 1ft rulers, I also find some small 6 inch rulers useful, 6 inch digital or dial calipers(if you're a glutton for punishment verniers).

Combo square: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Econ...n-Square/G8072

Hack Saws and a variety of blade types

Assortment of Files: lots and lots all different shapes and sizes you can never have too many.

Dremel or similar tool. There's really no limit on what you can make a dremel tool do.

Pliers: standard, vice grips, needle nose

Hammers: Ball peen in large and small sizes, rubber head mallet, plastic face, or even better a deadblow hammer.

Good wire strippers: not just the cheapest you can get, the ones that pull the wire apart automatically can be quite nice.

Good crimp tool: Again you want something that's not going to leave you stranded on the field. Every years teams are bit by mysterious electrical problems traced back to bad crimps.

Digital Multi-Meter: Now that you've wired it up, it helps to be able to test it. Cheapo units will do, but go for a higher end unit if you can afford it.

Pop Rivet Gun: nice and light fastener setup, be sure to research when and how to use these to maximize their potential, I believe there's a lot of literature on the topic here on CD.

Soldering Station: I'm partial to Weller, but you'll want something you can control the temperature and get a good solid solder joint

Workbench: Something sturdy

Workbench mounted vice: Biggest and strongest you can find. Ideally this thing should be able to laugh at a jackhammer.

Sawzall: can be a poor man's replacement to a bandsaw for chopping through stock if you don't have the space. Really useful when you need to cut stuff off the bot without disassembling.

Jigsaw: Really great multipurpose tool for cutting lines or shapes in sheets of material.

Drill Press: Radials are nice, you'll want something that can go pretty slow when needed: floor or bench model: http://www.grizzly.com/products/5-Sp...ll-Press/G7946 http://www.grizzly.com/products/5-Sp...ll-Press/G7945

Drill Press Vice: There's a bunch of different designs pick what you like.

Drill Press XY Table: http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-...de-Table/G8750 I bought this one for my team last year, and it can make precision drilling a dream compared to a hand drill.

Tap and Die Set: You can go for both SAE and metric, or just pick which you want to use, and buy the other piecemeal as needed.

Bandsaw: http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x-...-Bandsaw/G0622 Cutting through huge slabs of metal with a hacksaw is no fun, make life a bit easier on yourself.


Don't forget to buy blades and bits for many of the things listed here. Getting well outfitted with a good base of tools can be more important than playing with the more exotic tools like CNC, Lathes, Mills, welders 3D printers ETC.

If you have all of the stuff above, and still have the proper facility, and mentor support begin looking into more exotic tooling.

[PhantomPhyxer]

Shop Tools,

Here is what I would recommend:
Buy a tool box with several drawers
Buy a good mechanics set with both metric and SAE style wrenches which includes wrenches, rachets, and sockets.
Buy Allen Wrenches, metric and English.
Buy SAE hardware from #2 to 5/16" up to 2 1/2 inches
Specalize in 1/4 -20 either Grade 5 or Grade 8 -- Bolt Depot
It is unavoidable that some hardware will be metric.
Buy one vice with at least 6" expansion and 4" jaws.
Buy at least 6 Quick Clamps 12"
Buy a least 4 Bar Clamps with about a 18" opening.
A Drill pres will be about $350 to $500
Belt Sander is between $99 and $200.
The Stout Pro 200 is a good Band Saw
Digital Measuring Devices- Verniers about 2 is needed
Tape Measures about two or three are needed
Scribe to mark measurements before drilling or cutting
Crimpers and Strippers for Electrical

These are few things I can think of that have worked for us. We are still building our shop.

[lemiant]

H u

[AllenGregoryIV]

The Illuminations guide we posted a while go has a nice tool list in the appendix.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2623

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by invertedBottles

Last year we worked at the back of our teacher's physics classroom, we are now looking to convert half of the classroom into our robotics workshop, with some kind of semi-permanent division between the classroom and workshop.

I'm not trying to sound too much like an adult here, but has any of this been cleared with the school's administration or custodial departments? Just on my teaching experience alone I can tell you that it isn't a good idea to surprise either group. If you make one or the other angry you might end up finding a new Place to work whether you want to or not.

Space is another concern with big machines, I don't know what physics labs look like where you are, but from the ones at my school I can tell you that one Bridgeport with safety clearance will use up the full lab area. Also, does the teacher still have to teach in this room? In moSt states,there are regulations on what can be in a particular room based on the certified staff present. If you don't have a certified teache in industrial technology present a lot of school's won't have the insurance to cover potential injuries.

I'm not trying to shut you down on any big plans, but it always a shame to get everything put together and organized and then have to take it all down. I was offered a rediculous Haas CNC mill the other day on donation and had to turn it down because we don't have the floorspace and the maintenance department won't let us run electrical to where we do have space. Sometime things don't work out, and it is definately better to know ahead of time when they won't.